Christianity does not, in fact, connect you to God

[C0ckney]

not in any form that would be recognised as capitalism today it wasn't.

and gribbler if you meant to write 'is' where you wrote 'isn't' then i agree with you.

[Ben Kenobi]

Berz:

Don't forget Jesus rebuking the worker who buried his talent rather then making a investment and getting a better return.

Matthew 25:26-8

“His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

“‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

[Berzerker]

not in any form that would be recognised as capitalism today it wasn't.

Its more complicated today, but capitalism was born the first time somebody produced a surplus and began accumulating "wealth" by selling or trading it... Now its possible Jesus used the existing system in his metaphors about the spiritual aspects of his message without endorsing it, ie land owners and their crops etc, so we couldn't say Jesus endorsed slavery because he used it in a metaphor. But I certainly dont see anything in his teachings that contradict a belief in owning and selling your stuff, he repeatedly used the notion to support a "right" - a property/resource right.

[Al B. Sure!]

Berz:

Don't forget Jesus rebuking the worker who buried his talent rather then making a investment and getting a better return.

Matthew 25:26-8

Dude, that's usury. I thought Christians, and especially Catholics, do not believe in usury.

[Al B. Sure!]

not in any form that would be recognised as capitalism today it wasn't.

Phoenicians?

[Al B. Sure!]

Its more complicated today, but capitalism was born the first time somebody produced a surplus and began accumulating "wealth" by selling or trading it... Now its possible Jesus used the existing system in his metaphors about the spiritual aspects of his message without endorsing it, ie land owners and their crops etc, so we couldn't say Jesus endorsed slavery because he used it in a metaphor. But I certainly dont see anything in his teachings that contradict a belief in owning and selling your stuff, he repeatedly used the notion to support a "right" - a property/resource right.

*cough*

"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." -Matthew 19:24

[giblets]

Dude, that's usury. I thought Christians, and especially Catholics, do not believe in usury.

Most contemporary Christians seem to be okay with it. But yes, they used to think it was wrong to collect interest.

[giblets]

Lateran III decreed that persons who accepted interest on loans could receive neither the sacraments nor Christian burial.[10] Pope Clement V made the belief in the right to usury a heresy in 1311, and abolished all secular legislation which allowed it.[11] Pope Sixtus V condemned the practice of charging interest as "detestable to God and man, damned by the sacred canons and contrary to Christian charity."[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury
Those crazy Christians.

[Al B. Sure!]

So what's with Jesus saying it's not only dandy, but admonishing someone for not profiting off of it?!

[Al B. Sure!]

Looking at that same Matthew 25, which Ben is using to support a Capitalist Jesus, the chapter begins...

1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh

That's like polygamy!

[Nikolai]

How is ten bridesmaids a proof of polygamy?

[Al B. Sure!]

How is ten bridesmaids a proof of polygamy?

Oh that's what they are?

[giblets]

So what's with Jesus saying it's not only dandy, but admonishing someone for not profiting off of it?!

I really have no idea. Maybe they're talking about this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable...lents_or_minas
though I don't think it's traditionally interpreted as a socioeconomic treatise.

[DaShi]

Jesus was a communist.

[Berzerker]

*cough*

"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." -Matthew 19:24

And Jesus had wealthy backers, including family... So what is he saying there? That his own blood aint good enough because they have money? The guy who got his body from Pilate apparently had a fleet! No, you just cant take it with you and if you try, it wont help - just the mentality alone is offensive... Give your stuff away rather than bury it with you or waste it on expensive rituals. Hell, in that time some peoples still sacrificed slaves and servants to accompany the king in death to continue their service. I doubt Jesus was telling folk they couldn't get into heaven if they had accumulated wealth over a lifetime, thats a no brainer, thats what people should do by virtue of working and saving, perhaps becoming a land owner one day who hires others to harvest the crops...