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  • you didn't discuss them ben. you ignored the meat of the argument and then said everything is obama's fault, which is obviously rubbish. we've never got the strategy right. it's not the failure of any one politician, it's a wretched caterlog of failures by many politicians and generals.
    Which is why there's a downturn? By definition this isn't true.

    the goals of afghanistan (what are the goals these days, it's hard to keep up)? i don't think that they, such as they are, can be achieved. i think we are making things worse by being there. i have provided clear evidence to this effect.
    The time for that decision was before the intervention. You've broken it, now you've bought it.

    i've already asked you how you think they might be achieved, and your response boiled down "just keep believing, never mind the evidence. let's close our eyes and pretend that this massive hole will go away if we just keep digging. progress is just around the corner."
    How will it be achieved? Let's see.

    1. Repeal the present engagement orders. Go back to the old orders.
    2. Sit down with Musharraf, and explain how every Pakistani native caught planting explosives in Afghanistan will result in complete withdrawal of American support for his government.

    When the problem ceases, then restore aid and support to Musharraf. Give Musharraf the choice of being hanged by dissidents in his own country or cooperating with the US on Afghanistan.

    The problem is Musharraf, not Afghanistan, because the insurgents are coming from there, and look at how long Osama was hiding there in the lap of luxury. With friends like that...
    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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    • Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
      Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
      We've got both kinds

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      • I think Obama is totally incompetent and the soaring civilian casualties is his fault, but I don't think he should pull out of Afghanistan. Also I call myself a pacifist
        You break it you bought it. If anything that's more pacifist than pulling out when the going gets tough. Actions have consequences.
        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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        • Yeah... I don't think you know what that word means. But I know deaf kids have trouble learning to read, apparently.

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          • Yeah... I don't think you know what that word means. But I know deaf kids have trouble learning to read, apparently.
            Gribbler doctrine, get in all the wars you like, just don't stay!

            Or the Gribbler toggle. War/Peace/War/Peace/War/Peace.
            Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
            "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
            2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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            • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
              How will it be achieved? Let's see.

              1. Repeal the present engagement orders. Go back to the old orders.
              2. Sit down with Musharraf, and explain how every Pakistani native caught planting explosives in Afghanistan will result in complete withdrawal of American support for his government.

              When the problem ceases, then restore aid and support to Musharraf. Give Musharraf the choice of being hanged by dissidents in his own country or cooperating with the US on Afghanistan.

              The problem is Musharraf, not Afghanistan, because the insurgents are coming from there, and look at how long Osama was hiding there in the lap of luxury. With friends like that...


              this would be the same musharraf who resigned in the summer of 2008 and now resides as an exile in london?

              we're done ben. you simply have no idea what you're talking about.
              "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

              "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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              • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
                Gribbler doctrine, get in all the wars you like, just don't stay!

                Or the Gribbler toggle. War/Peace/War/Peace/War/Peace.
                Gribbler doctrine: don't get in wars and pull out of useless quagmires

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                • I guess the toggle is peace today. Will it toggle War tomorrow?
                  Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                  "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                  2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                  • Cockney:

                    Sigh. Gilliani not Musharraf. Serves me right for not checking it first.

                    So let's see your solution then.

                    QUIT! That solves everything.
                    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                    • Why would I want to send the troops back to Afghanistan?

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                      • Why would I want to send the troops back to Afghanistan?
                        No, you'd start a totally new war. Hey how bout that Muammar dude?
                        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                        • Why would I want to send troops to Libya? Sounds like another one of your bloodthirsty Christian fantasies.

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                          • Why would I want to send troops to Libya? Sounds like another one of your bloodthirsty Christian fantasies.
                            Great, then I suppose you have a quote of mine handy where I am totally behind the new war.
                            Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                            "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                            2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                            • Did you have a quote handy when you implied I want to start a war with Libya?

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                              • So you admit then you were wrong. Thank you.

                                Here's a clue. Get your facts straight first about people before accusing them of stuff.
                                Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                                "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                                2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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