A Song Of Ice And Fire: book discussion thread

[Guynemer]

Okay. That makes total sense.

I must have forgotten it due to the

Spoiler:

one thing that happens later in the book that is ****ing insane

or the

Spoiler:

other thing that happens in the book that is ****ing insane

or the

Spoiler:

one other thing that happens in the book that is completely and uttery ****ing batshat insane.

[Lorizael]

Yeah, I don't think I've gotten to those parts yet.

[Lorizael]

Have you seen the forums at Westeros?
http://www.westeros.org/

I assumed that place was spoilerific.

[Guynemer]

Yeah, I don't think I've gotten to those parts yet.

Oh, you'll know what I'm talking about.

[flash9286]

Oh, we're not spoiler tagging things? Bah!

No, I forgot the tags off mine.

[Supr49er]

Lorizael, Westeros does a decent job of labeling threads as spoilers. There are sections for each book.

[Main_Brain]

Because that's how old girls were when they got married back in the day. If that bugs you, you should probably stop before all the mass rapes and whatnot kick in.

Back in the Day? The Genre is Fantasy not Historical Novel..

What would it even be based on? Wars of the Roses? James VI?
A short Google Scholar search indicates the Average Age of Marriage at that Time [Noble, Female, 1st] to be pretty High. ( http://bit.ly/rZbBOV http://bit.ly/rVI0JY German / Dutch Nobles) Is it an English Phenomenon?

Then: How would they even measure Years without Seasons? Wouldn't they rather count the Moon Phases?

Finally: What bothers me is that the pedophile Ages serve no necessary literary Function at all. If Dany was 19 how would it affect the story? So far not that I can see it. Does the Maid the King wants to shagg have to be 14, does the Whore? Again, not really. Mainstreaming Pedophilia thats what it is.

That being said im only half through the First Book which of course is pretty boring if you watched the Series

[Lorizael]

I'd argue that Dany's age is pretty constrained due to the timeline of events surrounding Robert's Rebellion. But I don't really want to get into that, because it could definitely be considered spoilery.

That said, the rampant pedophilia doesn't bother me. GRRRRRM is attempting to show a brutal world where women have virtually no power and blah blah blah. He succeeds, I'd say.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Back in the Day? The Genre is Fantasy not Historical Novel..

Set in a distinct semi-historical period. It's a Medieval Fantasy.

And plenty of marriages were done for political purposes (a la, Dany's) involving women who were younger.

This is a blog I'm linking to, yes.. but contains some interesting info:

http://womenofhistory.blogspot.com/2007/08/medieval-marriage-childbirth.html

It is more common for a young woman to have been married early, though not to have had her first child until she was much older. It is agreed that the most common age for a young woman to have given birth to her first child is from 16yo.

In Italy the average age for marriage was 17; in France it is 16yo; and in England and Germany 18yo was the average age - all for first marriages. (Source: “Medieval Households” by David Herlihy, Harvard University Press, 1985).

However, the following examples are exceptions:

Bianca of Savoy, Duchess of Milan was married aged 13yo (1350), and aged 14yo when she gave birth to her eldest son, Giangaleazzo (1351).
Theodora Comnena was aged 13yo when she was married King Baldwin III of Jerusalem (1158).
Agnes of France was 12yo when, widowed, she was married to Andronicus Comnenus, Byzantine Emperor (1182).
St Elizabeth of Portugal was aged 12yo when she was married to King Denis of Portugal and gave birth to three children shortly thereafter.
Caterina Sforza was betrothed aged 9yo, married aged 14yo, and gave birth aged 15yo.
Lucrezia Borgia was married to her first husband aged 13yo and bore a son within a few years.
Beatrice d'Este was betrothed aged 5yo and married aged 15yo.

[Felch]

Finally: What bothers me is that the pedophile Ages serve no necessary literary Function at all.

It's explicitly not pedophilia, because they judge women to be ready to get ****ed based on menstruation. It's ephebophilia or hebephilia. Again, if it bothers you that a fictional teenage girl is having sex with older men, quit reading right now. The books only get more ****ed up as they go on.

Also, if teenagers having sex bothers you more than anything else in the series, you should really more to America and vote Republican. I think you'd find a lot of like minded folks.

[MOBIUS]

I finished A Clash of Kings last week while watching the reruns of A Game of Thrones. I'm on the waiting list for A Storm of Swords now, #7 I think, but there's multiple copies in the library system...

[MOBIUS]

It's explicitly not pedophilia, because they judge women to be ready to get ****ed based on menstruation. It's ephebophilia or hebephilia. Again, if it bothers you that a fictional teenage girl is having sex with older men, quit reading right now. The books only get more ****ed up as they go on.

Also, if teenagers having sex bothers you more than anything else in the series, you should really more to America and vote Republican. I think you'd find a lot of like minded folks.

If God didn't want people having under age sex, he'd wait for the menstruation cycles to kick in at 16. But then again, who are we to tell God that 12+ is under age...

[MOBIUS]

It's explicitly not pedophilia, because they judge women to be ready to get ****ed based on menstruation. It's ephebophilia or hebephilia. Again, if it bothers you that a fictional teenage girl is having sex with older men, quit reading right now. The books only get more ****ed up as they go on.

Also, if teenagers having sex bothers you more than anything else in the series, you should really more to America and vote Republican. I think you'd find a lot of like minded folks.

If God didn't want people having under age sex, he'd wait for the menstruation cycles to kick in at 16. But then again, who are we to tell God that 12+ is under age...

[Main_Brain]

Set in a distinct semi-historical period. It's a Medieval Fantasy.

And plenty of marriages were done for political purposes (a la, Dany's) involving women who were younger.

This is a blog I'm linking to, yes.. but contains some interesting info:

http://womenofhistory.blogspot.com/2...hildbirth.html

I saw the Book (“Medieval Households” by David Herlihy) referenced elsewhere, yet it did seem to only include Common Marriage not between Nobles so those Numbers should be viewed with Caution.
Due to Financial Restrictions Marriage between Commoners were usually later in Life as mentioned near the Bottom of the Blog.

Anyways Medieval Times is an rather inaccurate Description (it only lasted 1000 years ) so who can really tell?

Conclusion: Dany's Age surely is possible. I guess I will wait to find out wheter the Timeline Lorizael mentioned pans out. Till then I reserve my right to be outraged* wheter it is necessary.

Spoiler:

* there apparently is no english expression for "echauffieren" Sad.

[Main_Brain]

It's explicitly not pedophilia, because they judge women to be ready to get ****ed based on menstruation. It's ephebophilia or hebephilia. Again, if it bothers you that a fictional teenage girl is having sex with older men, quit reading right now. The books only get more ****ed up as they go on.

Also, if teenagers having sex bothers you more than anything else in the series, you should really move to America and vote Republican. I think you'd find a lot of like minded folks.

I did not know that, so lets call it Child Sexual Abuse to be safe. I dont really want to google the Differences between those *philias mentioned, I shudder at the Thought which Ads Google would display in the Future.

The Age thing does neither Shock me nor make me angry it just annoys me.
My question simply is: Why is it in? Does it affect the Storyline or is it rather a Device used by the Author to generate Controversy? At this Point (1st Book, Middle) due to Dany being submissively dependent on her Brother she could also have been older without any repercussions on the Story.

RE: United States: Do they still x-ray their candy there?


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