A Song Of Ice And Fire: book discussion thread

[Felch]

The differences have to do with whether it is before or after puberty. I think Martin's goal with a lot of the shocking ideas is to get us out of our fairy tale notions. Everybody is familiar with Tolkien, but he was angling to make a mythic fairy tale for modern England. So he has noble heroes, and a clear contrast between good and evil. Martin is trying to go at the fantasy genre from a more realistic viewpoint. Warfare is mostly a matter of knights brutalizing peasants, and using treachery rather than gallantry to win. The characters who would be most at home in Middle-Earth are the ones who fare the worst, while the ones who would make Stalin blush succeed. The series is heavy on black humor and brutality. Having Dany be 14 isn't really necessary for the plot, but it is a thematic necessity.

Bottom line: You're right that it's disturbing, but the whole series is disturbing. That's the fun of it.

[Jon Miller]

Dany needed to be young enough to not know the 7 kingdoms, that is part of her character.

There isn't much room for her age with the character of Jaime.

I agree she could have been 16.

I don't actually see anything 'wrong' with 14... nor anything particularly shocking. Plenty of girls were sexually active at that age in my school.

JM
(Not saying that they should be, and in western civilization with consent based sexual interactions (which is the best) I think that the age of consent should be 18 (or the legal age). It just isn't 'gross' nor particularly disturbing in a non-consent based society (which is much more disturbing).)

[Lorizael]

Oh, you'll know what I'm talking about.

HOLY ****! SERIOUSLY?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I know EXACTLY where you are in Book 3 .

Btw, that's not the only one of those moments in that book, FWIW (though not as strong a reaction).

[Lorizael]

GRRRRRM is a bastard, a ****ing bastard. Having...

Spoiler:

...Arya at the ****ing gates of the goddamn castle after running around for 2 books trying to get home and then killing EVERYBODY is ****ing cruel. Holy **** balls. wtf, man! Joffrey better mother****ing die soon, or I am going to start ****ting bricks. No, don't tell me!

[MikeH]

Exactly my reaction.

[Guynemer]

Yup. That was the first thing I referred to.

You still have at least two or three more to go.

[Lorizael]

GRRRRRM is a bastard, a ****ing bastard. Having...

Spoiler:

...Arya at the ****ing gates of the goddamn castle after running around for 2 books trying to get home and then killing EVERYBODY is ****ing cruel. Holy **** balls. wtf, man! Joffrey better mother****ing die soon, or I am going to start ****ting bricks. No, don't tell me!

Spoiler:

YES! AHAHHAHAHAAH! YES! DIE, LITTLE RAT****ER, DIE!

[Guynemer]

The best part is: you aren't done with the amazing, jaw-dropping set-piece scenes yet. Not by a long shot.

There are at least two more, off the top of my head.

[kittenOFchaos]

One could argue that it is because the don't consider Viserys a threat, but I doubt they know enough about him to be able to judge acurately, and I would think if they fear Daenerys, that they would be more worried about Viserys.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

/me

Viserys - a beggar prince.

Daenerys, pregnant with the child of a pretty hardcore warrior with a tribe of 100,000 fearsome riders.

Does he need to draw you a picture?

[Lorizael]

Finished A Storm of Swords.

Spoiler:

Tyrion's gone over to the dark side. Arya's finally going to be an assassin like she always wanted. Jaime's a good guy now (or perhaps always was). Cat's undead. Jon's the ****ing Lord Commander? Bran is...? And Sansa is going to get raped by a creepy mother****er pretty darn soon. Also, I really thought Dragonstone was going to erupt volcano-style, but I guess not.

[Guynemer]

Ayup. Awesome, awesome, awesome. When Tyrion's big scene at the end happened, I literally jumped off my couch in joy.

Neither 4 or 5 is as good, but they aren't nearly as bad as many claim. There is an absolutely terrific character arc in book four, as well as another good character arc from a character I previously cringed every time they hit the page.

Five features a scene that rivals the setpiece scenes of three in "oh ****ing **** GODDAMNIT" factor; I'm just pissed I'm going to have to wait another few years to see the fallout.

[Lorizael]

One thought that's occurred to me.

Spoiler:

Grey Wind never liked the Westerlings, and "Tommen" pardoned them after the Red Wedding. Are we supposed to believe that Jeyne was specifically instructed to seduce Robb with the express purpose of pissing off the Freys and leading to all that awful business?

[Guynemer]

I don't think so, but I believe I read some speculation related to other family members being involved in a set-up and/or cover-up of some kind.

[MikeH]

I have now finished book 5.

Spoiler:

LAST CHAPTER AT THE WALL **** YOU GEORGE RR MARTIN! YOU ****ING ****ER!

When can I pre-order next book?