A Song Of Ice And Fire: book discussion thread

[Imran Siddiqui]

Which be strange.. maybe he forgot about it .

aCoK is definitely at least on par with aGoT (I think it better).

This is my books rankings:

1) ASoS
2) ACoK
3) AGoT
-- (long gap)
4) AFfC
5) ADwD

[Koyaanisqatsi]

The three in the middle are pretty close for me, the order would probably change if you asked me tomorrow. Clash had several great parts, but several things felt flat to me (north of the wall, Sansa, some Theon).

[Guynemer]

Whereas the Wall and Theon were probably the best parts of ADWD.

[EPW]

I just finished aDwD and liked it alot. Thoughts below:

Spoiler:

Daenerys- Okay, Okay, this was a weak plot line considering the name of the book. Considering how Daenerys brutally slaughtered the slavers at Astoper and the Wise men or whatever at Meereen it was hard to believe she'd all of a sudden turn into such a pansy. The sexing with Daario was extremely pointless and we can only pray he died of the flux. And where were the Dragons? Pretty silly they don't really play a part till the end, though the seen where the big one flies into the Pit was awesome. And the whole Harpy thing was silly too, right when whats his name proposed to marry Daenerys it was obvious he was the head harpy. None of that would have mattered if we had the pay off at the end in the form of a gigantic battle, but somehow that didn't happen??? C
Bran - YES! HE FINALLY MADE IT TO WHEREEVER HE WAS GOING! And it's a cool place he got to too. And it looks like he's going to have some pretty cool powers too! Of course, his storyline ended before he got to do anything cool with them...except perhaps influence Theon's decision. B+
Tyrion - This story line was alot of fun even though there was no payoff at the end. I think we needed a "travel log" type story to learn about the far east and such. I was surprised that he didn't reach Daenerys in this book...but, whatever, Tyrion was still awesome. A-
Jon - A lot of plot development in this story. The wildlings move in behind the wall, Stannis goes off and kills people, Fire lady does magicy things, and all the craziness in the last couple of chapters. And I wasn't expecting the ending at all, though death doesn't mean as much as it used to. A
Dorne Prince - This seemed a little pointless. I don't think we really needed to get his POV on this, considering he only had one scene that mattered...except it didn't really matter? He let the dragons loose but they didn't go on a firey rampage? WTF. The only other redeeming scene was the battle at Astopor, which was cool. C-
Reek-I didn't think Reek was a very compelling character, but the whole business with Manderley happened in his storyline which was cool. The action at the end was good. B+
Arya - Awesome, as usual. A
Barriston - He's even more boring than I imagined. I hope he dies soon. C
Jiame - Nothing really happened - but if he met evil possessed Brienne things could get interesting next book. N/A
Victorian - This was cool, especially his firey arm. I was expecting him to be in the big battle at the end though...which never happened. B+
Cersei - She deserved what she got, and brought back undead Gregor! A-
Epilogue - Crossbow part 2! Winter! A
Aegon-Didn't see that one coming, awesome. A
Overall - B+

[Imran Siddiqui]

Whereas the Wall and Theon were probably the best parts of ADWD.

Most of the Wall chapters started getting repetitive and boring. We get it, Martin.

[Dinner]

Jesus... This guy sure does like killing off main characters. Soon there won't be any left.

[Flubber]

am halfwaythrough a feast of Crows and so far I like it the least of the bunch. Overall my feeling is almost like Martin, after doing a reasonably good job of introducing a lot of characters in ways that made them compelling, suddenly went-- "oh crap"-- there are seven kingdoms-- I need chapters on some of the others" So suddenly there are chapters, with dozens of new characters . I found the pieces on Dorne and the Iron Islands were just whirlwinds of new characters and I didn't get a good sense of their development or who is going to be important. I am still liking the book but so far its fourth of the 4

Spoiler:

I like the Jaime and Cersei chapters fine but as I end each chapter I am hoping the next one is a Tyrion chapter so I could find out how he got away and where he went. I am even ok if Tyrion gets killed since this is one thing I like about the series-- you never have the feeling that any character is too important to be killed off. But every chapter I am hoping to find out about Tyrion-- perhaps thats a bit of a suspense builder . ..

Some chapters I don't understand their point. One of the Brienne chapters-- she spends the whole time essentuially walking in the woods and the main theme was the distrust for her guide. They get to their location and then Brienne sees the guide killed by outlaws who she kills. It just seemed like a pointlessly long way around to kill off a couple of minor characters who had a more important role previously but characters if I never saw again, I would never wonder where they went. I am currently in another Brienne chapter where she is making another long trek in the wild in a different direction. I hope this has more happen and I cannot help but feel that the previous chapter on her could have been done is a 2-4 page entry into this chapter. How long does it take to say she spent weeks and weeks on a fools mission in the wrong direction that culminated in her killing the nasty outlaws she previously had dealings with??

I feel similarly about the Samuel chapters-- I had liked this character and his battles with his own weakness but there wass one chapter on the ship that just dragged. It imparted a few key facts but overall I thought it dragged a lot-- ok ok its stormy and they are all sick

I do like the Alayne/Sansa/ Littlefinger chapters now largely because I am very curious as to what the Littlefinger is plotting next-- Its impossible to believe he doesn't have things planned that will majorly shake the seven kingdoms

Arya-- still like her chapters and her spunky self -- I am curious where things will head from her temple stay -- again its a character where I think there will be important things happen

I don't really like the chapers about Dorne or the Iron Islands-- they are somewhat interesting to get a better sense of the seven kingdoms but so many characters are introduced so quickly that I am wondering who to care about-- Also I have to wonder why some people are so stupid-- Why does the Kingsguaard guy rush at two dozen crossbowmen? I mean we hadn't learned much about him and his honor except to know he broke his vows to lie with a beautiful woman-- does honor dictate that he must die in a hopeless rush at impossible odds rather than yield and continue to be able to serve? Its not like anyone was about the kill Mrycella then-- arrgghhh


I keep coming back to the book though-- Ilook forward to the chapters when things actually advance--- The cersei chapters are quite good for this--- Now when I see a bunch of middle importance on a trek . . .. well I wonder if they will still be trekking atthe end of the chapter-- I long ago understood the point that the seven kingdoms are quite large and encompass everything from sunbaked desert to arctic boreal forests so I get it if a trip takes a few months-- In my head I am thinkings something like northern Africa up to say Norway with something like the med as the narrow sea

As soon as I finish this one, I will go out and get book 5. Its one of those things where I am into the series now and will finish any books produced even if the reviews are that they are getting weaker and weaker

[Flubber]

JUst finished book 4 and started book 5-- the shocking part was to read the authors comment after book 4 that the mostly written companion piece of what is really one big book should be coming out in a year or so-- Good thing he wrote that comment in 2005!!! If part 6 has to be written fresh we could be looking at 2020 or so (considering he took 6 years to get out book when it was already mostly done!!

Spoiler:

Oh thats where Tyrion was!!!!

OH and if the ugly maid of Tarth actually dies that pointlessly after walking all over central Westeros--- arrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh--
and I am more than a little peeved to know that I have to read most of book 5 beofore I get past where book 4 ended-- already knowing what is going on with Cersie, Jaime, Dorne etc etc means that the first 70% of this book cannot bring anu surprises related to them--

[Guynemer]

Worry not, there are plenty of other characters to go around without Jaime, Cersei, and the Sand Snakes for the first several hundred pages...

[Flubber]

Worry not, there are plenty of other characters to go around without Jaime, Cersei, and the Sand Snakes for the first several hundred pages...

I know there will be a lot of folks to keep my interest. But part of what made the series interesting to me is that I never know what will happen next and he has little hesitation in killing off folks you think are important. But having read book 4 and knowing that book 5 is mostly the same time period I "know" that certain folks cannot die in the early chapters for such news would have been massively important to other characters. I also know that these characters cannot have gone to Dorne or Kings Landing or Riverrun since again that would have been notable-- Its a minor thing and I will say I am happy to be gettinmg back to the Free Cities, the Wall and the Vale

[Nostromo]

Do you guys remember the scene in Amadeus where some composer (Salieri, IIRC) showed one of his compositions to Mozart and Mozart then proceeded on the spot to make it much better ? I wonder what a master (Shakespeare or Tolstoi, say) would say if Martin showed him his last two books. They're just not very good, IMO, and I don't know enough about the craft to make constructive criticisms. Initially, he didn't want to write them at all: the story of the next book was supposed to start five years after the third book. But it seems it didn't work so Martin decided to write a book in the middle. But one book wasn't enough according to Martin, so he split it in two... What to do?

[Flubber]

Partway through book 5

Spoiler:

I just met Reek and although they have not identified him directly, they give enough hints-- from some of the spoilers I have read, I am curious where he will lead

I like the Wall stufdf and the maturing of Lord Snow-- killing Slynt in Eddard Stark "do it yourself" fashion was predictable but classic.

I am also enjoying the Dragon mothers problems with governance-- its real

Still liking the book ok but like book 4 I do believe its inferior to the other 3

[Imran Siddiqui]

Do you guys remember the scene in Amadeus where some composer (Salieri, IIRC) showed one of his compositions to Mozart and Mozart then proceeded on the spot to make it much better ? I wonder what a master (Shakespeare or Tolstoi, say) would say if Martin showed him his last two books. They're just not very good, IMO, and I don't know enough about the craft to make constructive criticisms. Initially, he didn't want to write them at all: the story of the next book was supposed to start five years after the third book. But it seems it didn't work so Martin decided to write a book in the middle. But one book wasn't enough according to Martin, so he split it in two... What to do?

Agreed. The drop off in quality from books 1-3 (some of the greatest fantasy writing ever, IMO) to 4 & 5 is very obvious. And it likely had to do with the fact that he really didn't want to write most of what was in 4 & 5 (maybe the end of 5 he was planning on writing) and that shows in the meandering and not all that interesting story.

[Dinner]

Do you guys remember the scene in Amadeus where some composer (Salieri, IIRC) showed one of his compositions to Mozart and Mozart then proceeded on the spot to make it much better ? I wonder what a master (Shakespeare or Tolstoi, say) would say if Martin showed him his last two books. They're just not very good, IMO, and I don't know enough about the craft to make constructive criticisms. Initially, he didn't want to write them at all: the story of the next book was supposed to start five years after the third book. But it seems it didn't work so Martin decided to write a book in the middle. But one book wasn't enough according to Martin, so he split it in two... What to do?

I think they're suffering from middle of the series syndrome. He set up a compelling beginning and he no doubt knows exactly what to do with the climatic end scene but right now we're stuck in the mushy middle as he tries to transition between the two. The problem is he has too many characters, not enough interesting and important events which the reader feels invested in, and WTF was up with the parallel story lines between books 4 & 5? I've just started reading book 5 so maybe I'll be surprised but the reviews aren't great.

[Dinner]

I'm just at the beginning of the fifth book (having now read the first four) but I'm curious who cold hands is. Am I right in suspecting he is the reanimated corpse of Ben Stark (Ned Stark's brother who was lost beyond the wall)? Also with all the burning of children and blood sacrifices it's sounding like the fire god is the evil one while the other god is the god of the children of the forest. Am I on the right track?