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  • #76
    [12]Now the sons of Eli were worthless men; they had no regard for the LORD.
    [13] The custom of the priests with the people was that when any man offered sacrifice, the priest's servant would come, while the meat was boiling, with a three-pronged fork in his hand,
    [14] and he would thrust it into the pan, or kettle, or caldron, or pot; all that the fork brought up the priest would take for himself. So they did at Shiloh to all the Israelites who came there.
    [15] Moreover, before the fat was burned, the priest's servant would come and say to the man who was sacrificing, "Give meat for the priest to roast; for he will not accept boiled meat from you, but raw."
    [16] And if the man said to him, "Let them burn the fat first, and then take as much as you wish," he would say, "No, you must give it now; and if not, I will take it by force."
    [17] Thus the sin of the young men was very great in the sight of the LORD; for the men treated the offering of the LORD with contempt.
    [18]Samuel was ministering before the LORD, a boy girded with a linen ephod.
    [19] And his mother used to make for him a little robe and take it to him each year, when she went up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.
    [20] Then Eli would bless Elka'nah and his wife, and say, "The LORD give you children by this woman for the loan which she lent to the LORD"; so then they would return to their home.
    [21]And the LORD visited Hannah, and she conceived and bore three sons and two daughters. And the boy Samuel grew in the presence of the LORD.
    [22]Now Eli was very old, and he heard all that his sons were doing to all Israel, and how they lay with the women who served at the entrance to the tent of meeting.
    [23] And he said to them, "Why do you do such things? For I hear of your evil dealings from all the people.
    [24] No, my sons; it is no good report that I hear the people of the LORD spreading abroad.
    [25] If a man sins against a man, God will mediate for him; but if a man sins against the LORD, who can intercede for him?" But they would not listen to the voice of their father; for it was the will of the LORD to slay them.

    1 Samuel 2:12-25

    WHAT ABOUT FREE WILL? They refuse to repent for their sins because God wants to make them do it and then punish them for it?

    Comment


    • #77
      A Calvinist would agree with you.
      John Brown did nothing wrong.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by gribbler View Post
        [12]Now the sons of Eli were worthless men; they had no regard for the LORD.
        [13] The custom of the priests with the people was that when any man offered sacrifice, the priest's servant would come, while the meat was boiling, with a three-pronged fork in his hand,
        [14] and he would thrust it into the pan, or kettle, or caldron, or pot; all that the fork brought up the priest would take for himself. So they did at Shiloh to all the Israelites who came there.
        [15] Moreover, before the fat was burned, the priest's servant would come and say to the man who was sacrificing, "Give meat for the priest to roast; for he will not accept boiled meat from you, but raw."
        [16] And if the man said to him, "Let them burn the fat first, and then take as much as you wish," he would say, "No, you must give it now; and if not, I will take it by force."
        [17] Thus the sin of the young men was very great in the sight of the LORD; for the men treated the offering of the LORD with contempt.
        [18]Samuel was ministering before the LORD, a boy girded with a linen ephod.
        [19] And his mother used to make for him a little robe and take it to him each year, when she went up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.
        [20] Then Eli would bless Elka'nah and his wife, and say, "The LORD give you children by this woman for the loan which she lent to the LORD"; so then they would return to their home.
        [21]And the LORD visited Hannah, and she conceived and bore three sons and two daughters. And the boy Samuel grew in the presence of the LORD.
        [22]Now Eli was very old, and he heard all that his sons were doing to all Israel, and how they lay with the women who served at the entrance to the tent of meeting.
        [23] And he said to them, "Why do you do such things? For I hear of your evil dealings from all the people.
        [24] No, my sons; it is no good report that I hear the people of the LORD spreading abroad.
        [25] If a man sins against a man, God will mediate for him; but if a man sins against the LORD, who can intercede for him?" But they would not listen to the voice of their father; for it was the will of the LORD to slay them.

        1 Samuel 2:12-25

        WHAT ABOUT FREE WILL? They refuse to repent for their sins because God wants to make them do it and then punish them for it?
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molinism

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination_%28Calvinism%29
        I need a foot massage

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        • #79
          I know what Calvinism is.

          Comment


          • #80
            The story is incomplete, but how did it start?

            Once more, it is from human's point of view, not God's. So it is human's interpretation's of events (same with the earlier Pharaoh/etc stories).

            So it started by saying that the son's of Eli had no regard for God. Obviously, biblically, God can judge and act on His judgement. Or at least obviously for most Christians/Jews.

            Also, as I said, this isn't from God's point of view. Likely the writer did not ask God, "what do you think" about every thing (I don't think the writer did, most Christians don't think the writer did, the writer doesn't claim to). God's actions are interpreted in the minds of the writer (and the reader).

            This is exactly the same as the response for every? sub-story you have posted. Do you just not understand these ideas? Do you think that they are unreasonable? I really don't understand why you keep asking the same questions which have the same answers.

            JM
            Jon Miller-
            I AM.CANADIAN
            GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

            Comment


            • #81
              [20] Then Eli would bless Elka'nah and his wife, and say, "The LORD give you children by this woman for the loan which she lent to the LORD"; so then they would return to their home.
              [21]And the LORD visited Hannah, and she conceived and bore three sons and two daughters. And the boy Samuel grew in the presence of the LORD.
              The LORD hit it with Hannah resulting in 5 kids?
              Blah

              Comment


              • #82
                See, this is what happens when people who don't read or study the Bible read just a single verse.

                It means that God blessed Hannah so that she would conceive.

                The writer wasn't claiming that her children were literal children of God, as Christians claim Christ was.

                JM
                Jon Miller-
                I AM.CANADIAN
                GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Yahweh must have been pretty nasty in order for Israelites to have that perception of him. I mean, they considered him sadistic enough to make someone be a sinner and then punish them for it?

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by gribbler View Post
                    Yahweh must have been pretty nasty in order for Israelites to have that perception of him. I mean, they considered him sadistic enough to make someone be a sinner and then punish them for it?
                    [12]Now the sons of Eli were worthless men; they had no regard for the LORD.

                    They were already sinners and deserving death and God applied judgement to them (in the writer's interpretation of events).

                    So yes, it is important to think about what the writers were thinking about. That what they were thinking might not be right, that their understanding might not have been complete (ours is not now).

                    I know that I have sometimes not said everything carefully, but it is because I get tired of repeating myself. So that should have been said (and should be said in the future) about every story in the Bible.

                    JM
                    Jon Miller-
                    I AM.CANADIAN
                    GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Israelites were iron age middle easterners. We all agree on that Gribbler.
                      I need a foot massage

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Barnabas View Post
                        Israelites were iron age middle easterners. We all agree on that Gribbler.
                        JM
                        Jon Miller-
                        I AM.CANADIAN
                        GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Jon Miller View Post
                          See, this is what happens when people who don't read or study the Bible read just a single verse.

                          It means that God blessed Hannah so that she would conceive.

                          The writer wasn't claiming that her children were literal children of God, as Christians claim Christ was.

                          JM
                          I wasn't really being serious. And I know this was meant the way you describe, I was just making analogies to Zeus...
                          Blah

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            I laugh at Jon Miller and Imran. What denominations are you guys? Maybe you need to talk to some of your fellow Protestants who most definitely don't see things the way you do.
                            "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                            "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing?
                              Then why call him God? - Epicurus

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Al B. Sure! View Post
                                I laugh at Jon Miller and Imran. What denominations are you guys? Maybe you need to talk to some of your fellow Protestants who most definitely don't see things the way you do.
                                Is it a belly laugh? Or a chuckle? Or a giggle?

                                JM
                                Jon Miller-
                                I AM.CANADIAN
                                GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                                Comment

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