Lessons from the Bible

[Barnabas]

Your are wrong HC, because for most Christians, who are not protestants, only the only one true Church (be it the Catholic Church, or the Orthodox Church according to your belief) can interpret scripture properly.

For most christians, most moral and theological issues have been settled, and there is no place to argue or give your original interpretation that can contradic the opinion of Church fathers or Councils.

In the USA, because of its tradition of democracy and since protestantism is so big in it, you may get that idea.

I believe scripture is inspired, but it can be inspired and untrue at the same time. Inspired just means God wanted the scriptures to be that way. It is not controversial to see the Book of Esther Judith as theological novels.
Jonah may not have existed or spent three days inside a huge fish, but God wanted the book to exist so that Jesus could say this

"Just as Jonah spent three days in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of Man spend three days in the bowels of the earth"

[Al B. Sure!]

No, that is the Quran.

The Word is Christ.

JM

Sigh... we've been over this before. Scripture alone is the formal principle of the faith, the final authority for all matters of faith and morals because of its inspiration, authority, clarity, efficacy, and sufficiency... sola scriptura is the foundation of Protestantism.

[Barnabas]

The Church created the Scripture. Jesus founded a Church, he did not hand out books

[Al B. Sure!]

The Church created the Scripture. Jesus founded a Church, he did not hand out books

Yeah yeah Catholics are a whole different story. I've actually noted a few times that Ben is far truer to his faith than these Protestants like Jon Miller or Imran who want to fit their own sensibilities into the faith and always blather on about context and interpretation when the Bible itself warns against the words of men.

[giblets]

You have to take those warnings in context

[Jon Miller]

That is a tautology. You seem to be saying that you believe it because it makes the most sense to you. I was asking you why it makes more sense to you. Is it not something you can qualitatively or quantitatively describe? Is it just more intuitive to you?

How is that a tautology?

I guess I didn't give you a description of what I did.

I was raised Christian. Fairly conservative Christian, actually.

In highschool, I had been reading a lot. I was in classes (mainly a humanities class where I read a lot of philosophy and literature, and we spent the class times discussing it) which caused me to reevaluate things. I read on my own a lot too. Among things that I thought for a period of time due to this (just giving extremes):
1. very pro communism, even so far as to being against personal property
2. anti traditional marriage, thought that groups of men and women should marry eachother and have eachother in common with those who wish to raise children focusing on that and the other providing/etc, before I gave up the idea I had decided that it was necessary that everyone was bisexual as well
Obviously I no longer agree with either of these.

Just as obviously I reevaluated my religion as well. I knew a lot about my religion, I was young and had not a lot of experience with it. I had been baptized. I never gave up God, or Christ, but I did look at it and try to decide what I believed and why I believed it.

I decided I believed in God because I desired to. There were many reasons why I wanted to. Some of them I have pointed to as arguments ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel%27s_ontological_proof ), but primarily it was because I could see evil and good in myself and my surroundings ( although evil was easier to isolate, I think ) and some being that was perfectly good had existed or would exist. And I believed in God, this was sufficient reason for me.

But Christianity is a lot more than believing in God. Even a good God. So I read about other religions. I have never owned a Quran, but I do own Hindu and Buddhist spiritual books (the most important Hindu one). Primarily I read about what people believed. And I knew that I was evil. A sinner. All the great religions address this in a maner. And I considered Universalism. I still think that people can find God through other religions, and that God revealed Himself to more than just the Israel. But all the other religions are inwardly focused. They focus on me changing myself from within. What I do to make myself right with God and the universe. Transformation from within.

Christianity is different. Christianity is about Grace, it is about God making me right with God and the universe through Christ Jesus. In Christianity, I am transformed not by my own workings, but by Christ working within me (by Christ changing me).

This is different, this is exciting. This is a reason to Worship independent of every other. And fundamentally, this is the reason why I decided that Christianity was the right path with God. That I wanted to remain being a Christian.

I have struggled with things/problems/sins/difficulties, and changed my mind about doctrine, and probably will again. But I will remain on the Christian path.

And as I said, now, I have had my Faith validated. I have experienced God working in my life. I am being transformed, changed. I am not complete, I am not perfect. Nowhere near.

But I have seen God change me. And I pray He will continue to change me.

So yes, I have experience. As long as I don't forget it or deny it.

JM

[Jon Miller]

JM, you're saying all people deserve death, but it is wrong to kill them? Only God is allowed to kill something that deserves death?

We are told not to. Because we deserve death. And because God is merciful.

Why should we not have mercy on those God has mercy on?

JM

[Jon Miller]

Your are wrong HC, because for most Christians, who are not protestants, only the only one true Church (be it the Catholic Church, or the Orthodox Church according to your belief) can interpret scripture properly.

For most christians, most moral and theological issues have been settled, and there is no place to argue or give your original interpretation that can contradic the opinion of Church fathers or Councils.

In the USA, because of its tradition of democracy and since protestantism is so big in it, you may get that idea.

I believe scripture is inspired, but it can be inspired and untrue at the same time. Inspired just means God wanted the scriptures to be that way. It is not controversial to see the Book of Esther Judith as theological novels.
Jonah may not have existed or spent three days inside a huge fish, but God wanted the book to exist so that Jesus could say this

"Just as Jonah spent three days in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of Man spend three days in the bowels of the earth"

There is some truth to this. It is safest to consider everything as true, because those who spend too much time saying 'did this really happen' or 'did that really happen' end up using doubting about one bit to cast doubt on another bit so that they doubt everything and gain nothing from the Bible (just gain things they already know from other human books).

So the Bible if taken as true will allow us to gain the theological insight that will lead us to God. And that is what inspiration means. It doesn't mean that it is the best possible historical account of events long ago that could ever possibly exist.

JM

[Heraclitus]

Honestly, the Bible is full of immoral activity by inbred primitives.

Spreading intolerance against the inbred.

Bad liberal. Bad liberal!

[Hauldren Collider]

Your are wrong HC, because for most Christians, who are not protestants, only the only one true Church (be it the Catholic Church, or the Orthodox Church according to your belief) can interpret scripture properly.

For most christians, most moral and theological issues have been settled, and there is no place to argue or give your original interpretation that can contradic the opinion of Church fathers or Councils.

In the USA, because of its tradition of democracy and since protestantism is so big in it, you may get that idea.

Fair point. I hadn't considered that.

[Lonestar]

The Bible teaches me that God will send bears to kill kids if they make fun of someone being bald.

[Berzerker]

wow, good thread

[Barnabas]

The Bible teaches me that God will send bears to kill kids if they make fun of someone being bald.

Those kids totally had it coming

[Imran Siddiqui]

You have to worship the Bible to be a real Christian?

Unfortunately too many commit idolatry by worshiping the Bible rather than the Living Word, the Trinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The best description I have read of the Bible is that it is simply a mirror to God, but not God itself.

"39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life."
-John 5:39-40

[Imran Siddiqui]

sola scriptura is the foundation of Protestantism.

As Protestantism split off due to doctrinal differences with the Catholic Church, it (assuming that Protestantism can even begin to have a central core aside from believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior) cannot assert any doctrinal consistency.