Massive Quake Hits NE Japan

[KrazyHorse]

dfg is now well over 1/3 of this thread. What a ****ing glutton for punishment.

[DaShi]

The worst part is that he actually wants the reactors in Japan to do worse and people there to die simply so he can gloat over his idiotic fearmongering. Even Ben had more class than him. It's no wonder he was fired from an industry that is desperate for more workers.

[Lancer]

Dfg, the workers who are cleaning up are not "stupid". They made the heartbreaking choice, along with their wives and families in many cases, to do this thing. They know what they are about, and they sacrifice their own lives so that others may live. Would you call Jesus stupid? He died so that we may live... This is an act of intelligent people laying down their very being so that several nuclear reactors don't lay waste to half of Japan and contaminate wherever the wind takes the radiation. We owe them a profound debt of gratitude, and that's what you need to understand.

[germanos]

I think most of the 'there's no significant danger with the radioactivity in Japan' should start a lobbygroup to press the Japanese Government.

Japan nuclear evacuation 'will be long-term'


Apparently they think they are doing it wrong?

[Docfeelgood]

The worst part is that he actually wants the reactors in Japan to do worse and people there to die simply so he can gloat over his idiotic fearmongering. Even Ben had more class than him. It's no wonder he was fired from an industry that is desperate for more workers.

I choose to live in a world where the possibility exists rather than your never will happen. I would have been more cautious than you.
BTW
you are one sick minded fuk to say I would even think such a thing to happen. You are pathetic! You really do not have a heart.

[Docfeelgood]

Dfg, the workers who are cleaning up are not "stupid". They made the heartbreaking choice, along with their wives and families in many cases, to do this thing. They know what they are about, and they sacrifice their own lives so that others may live. Would you call Jesus stupid? He died so that we may live... This is an act of intelligent people laying down their very being so that several nuclear reactors don't lay waste to half of Japan and contaminate wherever the wind takes the radiation. We owe them a profound debt of gratitude, and that's what you need to understand.

If the Japanese mind set is the same as was 70-80 years ago, I don't think there decision was a choice.

[Docfeelgood]

dfg is now well over 1/3 of this thread. What a ****ing glutton for punishment.

I have to answer all your stupid remarks

[Docfeelgood]

Nuclear waste: America's 'biggest security threat'
Nuclear waste is called the nation's 'biggest security threat'.Spent fuel is currently sitting in pools around the country, like at this plant in southeast Texas. Many are close to major population centers, and a fire could be catastrophic. By Steve Hargreaves, senior writerApril 1, 2011: 6:42 AM ET


NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- In the United States 63,000 tons of nuclear waste, the sum total of all the waste generated by decades of nuclear power, sits right where it was created -- at the power plants themselves.

Often, these power plants are very close to major population centers -- Washington D.C., Boston, New York City, Philadelphia and Chicago all have reactors within the 50-mile fallout zone.

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If the waste catches on fire, a situation they are now racing to prevent at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi plant, critics say it could effectively render an area the size of half of New Jersey permanently uninhabitable.

"It's probably the single greatest security vulnerability in the United States," said Kevin Kamps, radioactive waste specialist at Beyond Nuclear, a watchdog group.
How close is your home to a nuclear power plant?

Kamps and many other industry critics want lawmakers to mandate that most of the waste, known as spent fuel, be stored away from the main reactors in certified steel and concrete casks, then have those casks placed in fortified buildings or earthen bunkers.

"But it's fallen on deaf ears in Congress," Kamps said.

Currently most of the waste sits close to the reactors in large pools that resemble swimming pools. A smaller amount is kept outside in casks that critics say are poorly guarded.

The reason so much waste is being stored at the nuclear power plants themselves is that the government hasn't figured out what to do with it permanently.

Storing the waste in this manner was supposed to be a temporary measure until it was permanently buried deep inside Nevada's Yucca mountain. But thanks to a mix of geology and politics, that site was recently deemed unsuitable.

The hunt is on for a new long term repository, but finding and building one will likely take decades.

The industry and the government say storing the waste at the power plants for decades isn't a problem.

"The fuel is safe, in a cask or in a pool," said David McIntyre, a spokesman for the government's Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

McIntyre said the government will take a look at waste storage as part of its comprehensive review following the events in Japan, but added that, at this time, "there's no safety reason to move it."

Industry critics couldn't disagree more.

They say the radioactive spent fuel rods, which rely on circulating water to remain cool, are vulnerable to both natural disaster or terrorist attack.

In a natural disaster, a power outage from an earthquake, hurricane, tornado or other event would cause the water pumps to fail. Yes, there are back up generators, but sometimes those fail too, as is the case in Japan. If that happens, it's only a mater of days until the fuel heats up to the point where it boils off the water and then catches fire.

They note that the pools themselves are located outside the reactor's main containment dome. An explosion, like what occurred in Japan, would expose the pools to the open air.

It's also possible for terrorists to specifically target the pools. Reactors like the ones in Japan, of which there are 23 in the United States, are particularly vulnerable. The pools in that design are located several stories above ground, making them easy targets for shoulder-fired missiles or airplane attacks.

Critics say the concrete and steel around the pools are designed to prevent radiation leaks, not to stop a missile.

"It's hard to understand why the Nuclear Regulatory Commission has not mandated a more rapid transfer of spent fuel to dry casks," California's Democrat senator, Dianne Feinstein, said at an appropriations subcommittee hearing Wednesday.

Kamps said the reason is cost -- that it would cost up to $100 million per reactor to move the fuel from the pools to reinforced dry cask storage, a cost the companies that run the plants do not want to bear.

The industry said cost has nothing to do with it.
0:00 /2:51Plant cleanup workers face hard task

"We're ready to cooperate with the NRC and others on all aspects of our operations," said Bryant Kinney, a spokesman for the Nuclear Energy Institute, an industry association.

Despite their willingness to cooperate on any additional safety measures the government may require, the industry feels the fuel is safe right were it is.

Kinney pointed to a 2002 study from the Electric Power Research Institute, an independent research organization, saying that the plants would withstand an impact from a commercial airliner. He said that includes the spent fuel pools.

Plus, moving the fuel from the pool to a cask is a dangerous operation in and of itself. There's no need to take that risk if, eventually, it will all be moved to permanent storage anyway.

The NRC said that since Sept 11, 2001, the industry has become much more prepared to deal with unexpected losses of power or attacks on its facilities. Preparations include pre-positioning generators, water, and other equipment near a plant, but not close enough that they would be damaged in an attack or natural disaster.

As for the risks of a worst-case scenario, the NRC wouldn't speculate on just how large the contamination area might be, only to say that a fire in a spent fuel pool is "extremely unlikely."

Some experts have said the fallout zone would be smaller than a 50 mile radius. Others have said three times the size of New Jersey.

Everyone does agree on one thing: It would be a terrible situation. To top of page

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/01/news...aste/index.htm


Because I do not agree to the mind set of " lets build the nuke plants now and figure what to do with the waste later" makes you think I am a idiot? You are the idiot.

[dannubis]

No.

It is mainly because you were freaking out when in fact everyone who knows (theoretically or practically) what is going on in a nuke plant said that the data available at that time did not point to cataclismic failure.

[dannubis]

If the Japanese mind set is the same as was 70-80 years ago, I don't think there decision was a choice.

Hmmm... A lot of people do what they have to do because it is their job.

Are you calling killed soldiers stupid ?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/01/news...aste/index.htm


Because I do not agree to the mind set of " lets build the nuke plants now and figure what to do with the waste later" makes you think I am a idiot? You are the idiot.

While I agree a long term solution for disposal is required and that the US government (particularly this admin has screwed the utilities {with Executive Order to prevent usage of Yucca Mountain}), going back on their promise to provide a national repository of waste, (an issue that dates itself back to the Carter administration taking the reprocessing of spent fuel back into useable fuel out of the equation and thus making waste generation a much bigger issue) the waste issue is not as dire as the article would like to imply. Firstly spent fuel, is well for lack of a better word spent. It has so little fissible material in it that the possibility of slef sustained reaction is nil. Does this mean it isn't 'hot'. No, the byproducts of the fission process and subseqeunt decay products are 'hot' but not to the point of OMG melt down watch out.

Let me describe the process a bit. Upon a refuel. The core is reorganized such that fuel rods that have undergone three cycles of use are removed and placed into temporary storage in a vat of water called the spent fuel pool. (the remaining 2/3 of the core are reorganzed and a fresh batch of rods make up the offloaded 1/3) The spent rods are placed in this temporary treatment to remove decay heat. Decay heat occurs not from fission but more because the fission byproducts spit out radiation that ultimately finds most of its energy into heat generation. This decay heat is dissipated largely within the first 30 days following a refueling. Afterwards the evaporative cooling of the pool typically is all that is necessay to remove the decay heat of the 1/3 core offload. So in effect after teh first 30 days following a refuel the spent fuel pool has very little ongoing heat genreation. Haven't run the numbers but am fairly sure no conceivable means to generate the heat required to start a Zirconium water reaction to set the fuel rods on fire.

SO what happens to the fuel in the spent fuel pool when the next refueling occurs (approximately 18 to 24 months depending on the fuel type and facility). The now cooled spent fuel is removed fromthe SFP and placed into Casks in an Independant Spent Fuel Storage Installation. http://www.nucleartourist.com/systems/dry_cask.htm

The fuel is for all intents andpurposes dead with respect to heat genreation, dead with respect to fissibility but is indeed radioactive. These casks are amazingly durable and as shown have no combustible materials anywhere near them. The things are huge inert rocks for all intents andpurposes that are designed to be broadsided by freght trains at 80 mph without any damage.

So you have these spent fuel CASKs orderly organized and secured at the utilities and for all intents and purposes are impregnable. Furthermore the material inside these CASks has not ability to catch on fire save for some outside mechanism (acts of terrorism or the like). Not a big threat. That being said the US government promised a more permanent solution and has to date broken everyone of their promises and promise dates.

[The Mad Monk]

Ogie, don't know if you're at all interested, but...

Exclusive: WANTED: U.S. workers for crippled Japan nuke plant

By Scott DiSavino and David Sheppard | Reuters – Thu, 31 Mar, 2011 7:55 PM EDT

NEW YORK (Reuters) - As foreign assignments go this must be just about the most dangerous going.

A U.S. recruiter is hiring nuclear power workers in the United States to help Japan gain control of the stricken Fukushima Daiichi plant, which has been spewing radiation.

The qualifications: Skills gained in the nuclear industry, a passport, a family willing to let you go, willingness to work in a radioactive zone.

The rewards: Higher than normal pay and the challenge of solving a major crisis.

"About two weeks ago we told our managers to put together a wish list of anyone interested in going to Japan," said Joe Melanson, a recruiter at specialist nuclear industry staffing firm Bartlett Nuclear in Plymouth, Massachusetts, on Thursday.

So far, the firm has already signed up some workers who will be flying to Japan on Sunday.

Melanson said there will be less than 10 workers in the initial group. Others are expected to follow later, he added.

Plant owner Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) has appealed to the nuclear industry outside of Japan for assistance as the crisis has spiraled beyond their control.

On Thursday, the company said radiation levels in water found in tunnels under the plant was 10,000 times the normal level and radioactive iodine 131 was found in ground water near No.1 reactor of the complex.

Melanson said Bartlett Nuclear had been approached by sub-contractors linked to the General Electric-Hitachi nuclear joint venture. GE designed the Fukushima reactors.

"At first, we had no details about the duration of the job or the positions needed. The only requirement was that you have a valid passport," Melanson said.

But as the job details came in, Bartlett managers scoured the list of volunteers and selected several engineers and technicians "we knew would perform well for us over there."

So just what type of person would go into a damaged nuclear plant that is throwing out dangerous levels of radiation?

NOT ROUGHNECKS

Melanson said these are not roughnecks prepared to risk their health for a quick paycheck but senior technicians and engineers who have come up through the ranks.

Some have families. "Anytime we have international business, it's up to the workers to square it with their wives."

Japan has put in an exclusion zone of 20 kilometers around the plant. Several experts have recommended that zone should be expanded.

Melanson could not say for certain where the workers would stay but said initially they would be based in Tokyo and drive the 480 kilometer (300 miles) roundtrip to the Daiichi plant. Translators will be provided so they don't have to speak Japanese.

"The pay will definitely be better than the average pay (for a nuclear technician) over here," Melanson said, but declined to specify exactly what the average salary would be. It is not clear how long they will be working in Japan, but Melanson estimated it would be at least a month.

The workers are not expected to come into contact with the highest levels of radiation.

"These are not 'jumpers' rushing into a room. TEPCO is bringing in robots to help limit human exposure to high levels of radiation," he said.

"Jumpers" is the industry term for people who enter highly radioactive environments to quickly perform a task. The practice was common in the United States in the 1970s and early 80s.

"It's still a job that exists but it's much rarer than in the past - the job is mostly performed mechanically with engineered robotics these days," said Rock Nelson, staffing manager at Nelson Nuclear Corp in Richland, Washington, who has worked in the nuclear industry for almost 30 years.

Melanson said the workers would receive all the equipment needed to do their jobs and safeguard their health.

The roles include ground water and radiation specialists, and spent fuel experts.

Other international nuclear firms have also sent workers to Japan, including France's Areva SA and U.S.-based Westinghouse.

Some experts think the crisis could take months to resolve.

"Tepco will be facing specific and unique problems in each plant," said Nelson.

"Each specific problem may require the engineering of a specific piece of machinery. They will almost certainly have to send a jumper or two in but only as a last resort. This is going to run on for weeks if not months."

(Reporting by Scott DiSavino and David Sheppard in New York, and Eileen O'Grady in Houston. Edited by Martin Howell)

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/exclusive-wanted-u-workers-crippled-japan-nuke-plant-20110331-165506-832.html

[Docfeelgood]

No.

It is mainly because you were freaking out when in fact everyone who knows (theoretically or practically) what is going on in a nuke plant said that the data available at that time did not point to cataclismic failure.

Bull****!

everyone who knows (theoretically or practically)

there is a cataclysmic failure and were not prepared because the mind set is it was not suppose to happen.

[Docfeelgood]

dp

[Docfeelgood]

While I agree a long term solution for disposal is required and that the US government (particularly this admin has screwed the utilities {with Executive Order to prevent usage of Yucca Mountain}), going back on their promise to provide a national repository of waste, (an issue that dates itself back to the Carter administration taking the reprocessing of spent fuel back into useable fuel out of the equation and thus making waste generation a much bigger issue) the waste issue is not as dire as the article would like to imply. Firstly spent fuel, is well for lack of a better word spent. It has so little fissible material in it that the possibility of slef sustained reaction is nil. Does this mean it isn't 'hot'. No, the byproducts of the fission process and subseqeunt decay products are 'hot' but not to the point of OMG melt down watch out.

Let me describe the process a bit. Upon a refuel. The core is reorganized such that fuel rods that have undergone three cycles of use are removed and placed into temporary storage in a vat of water called the spent fuel pool. (the remaining 2/3 of the core are reorganzed and a fresh batch of rods make up the offloaded 1/3) The spent rods are placed in this temporary treatment to remove decay heat. Decay heat occurs not from fission but more because the fission byproducts spit out radiation that ultimately finds most of its energy into heat generation. This decay heat is dissipated largely within the first 30 days following a refueling. Afterwards the evaporative cooling of the pool typically is all that is necessay to remove the decay heat of the 1/3 core offload. So in effect after teh first 30 days following a refuel the spent fuel pool has very little ongoing heat genreation. Haven't run the numbers but am fairly sure no conceivable means to generate the heat required to start a Zirconium water reaction to set the fuel rods on fire.

SO what happens to the fuel in the spent fuel pool when the next refueling occurs (approximately 18 to 24 months depending on the fuel type and facility). The now cooled spent fuel is removed fromthe SFP and placed into Casks in an Independant Spent Fuel Storage Installation. http://www.nucleartourist.com/systems/dry_cask.htm

The fuel is for all intents andpurposes dead with respect to heat genreation, dead with respect to fissibility but is indeed radioactive. These casks are amazingly durable and as shown have no combustible materials anywhere near them. The things are huge inert rocks for all intents andpurposes that are designed to be broadsided by freght trains at 80 mph without any damage.

So you have these spent fuel CASKs orderly organized and secured at the utilities and for all intents and purposes are impregnable. Furthermore the material inside these CASks has not ability to catch on fire save for some outside mechanism (acts of terrorism or the like). Not a big threat. That being said the US government promised a more permanent solution and has to date broken everyone of their promises and promise dates.

Reminds me of living in apartments. My apartment I try to keep from catching fire but my neighbors were not so careful as me.