The day part of the Internet died: Egypt goes dark

[germanos]

Never been unified?

Umayyad Caliphate:

Good grief: The Shia and Sunni were already chopping eachother heads off. Apart from claiming to be the only true heir of Mohammed that was the only thing that united them.

[BlackCat]

Never been unified?

Al, those areas wasn't Arab, they were conquered areas. You could just as well claim that Spain, France, Britain, Israel, Syria, Egypt, Turkey and a lot more are actually Italian.

[Al B. Sure!]

They are (with the exception of Persia and Spain) Arab now.

There is a definite hope among both Pan-Arabists and Islamists to recreate the Umayyad Caliphate, though.


Many (not all but many) of these national identities are recent creations. What's the difference between Bahrain, Qatar, and the UAE?

[giblets]

What exactly would unifying the arabs accomplish?

[BlackCat]

They are (with the exception of Persia and Spain) Arab now.

There is a definite hope among both Pan-Arabists and Islamists to recreate the Umayyad Caliphate, though.


Many (not all but many) of these national identities are recent creations. What's the difference between Bahrain, Qatar, and the UAE?

Uhmn, what do you mean with "recent creations" ? Both Bahrain and Quatar has history going back several centuries.

[BlackCat]

Actually, by that measure, it would be reasonable if Norway again became a part of Denmark and Finland the same to Sweden. Heck, lets just say that Sweden also should be a part of Denmark again (including Finland, of Course).

Edit: Dammit, Iceland, England and Normandy should of course also be included.

How could I forget Estland and the north coast of germany an poland ?

[Al B. Sure!]

Uhmn, what do you mean with "recent creations" ? Both Bahrain and Quatar has history going back several centuries.

What I mean is what is a Bahraini? A Qatari? An Emirati?

They are people that live in these countries but is calling someone an Emirati the same as calling someone Flemish or Sicilian? Is it a distinct ethnic group?

[Al B. Sure!]

Actually, by that measure, it would be reasonable if Norway again became a part of Denmark and Finland the same to Sweden. Heck, lets just say that Sweden also should be a part of Denmark again (including Finland, of Course).

The linguistic, cultural, religious, and ethnic differences between Swedes, Danes, and Norwegians are almost as minimal as the difference between Emiratis and Saudis.

Kalmar Union makes sense... hell, the European Union exists.

[BlackCat]

What I mean is what is a Bahraini? A Qatari? An Emirati?

They are people that live in these countries but is calling someone an Emirati the same as calling someone Flemish or Sicilian? Is it a distinct ethnic group?

Eh What defines an american ?

[Al B. Sure!]

Eh What defines an american ?

American is multi-ethnic. Qatari is not. (I know Qatar has a crapload of South Asian immigrants but they're not the citizenry)

Qatari are Arabs. Bahraini are Arabs. Emirati are Arabs. Saudis are Arabs.


Yes, Arab is but one identity of many (besides the national, there are also religious identities) but Arab and Muslim are two that unite the entire region.

[Al B. Sure!]

Look at Latin America as a comparison. Here is a case where though the inhabitants of the region share the same Catholic faith, speak the same language, and have similar origins (although they are far more heterogeneous than Arabs), there are very strong national identities and the countries don't get along well at all.

Are national identities in the Arab world stronger than in Latin America? I don't think so. I concede this may be due to my experience as an Arab American and immigrants usually behave differently (I imagine 19th century Tuscans and Sicilians were very distinct in their lands but once they came to America they were all Italians). But I think Emirati is just one in a list of different identities that one can have.

Do the governments of these countries get along? Yes. Aside from the Iraqi annexation of Kuwait and Syrian meddling in Lebanon, there is not much animosity (at least not to the point of war) between these countries, especially compared to the animosity between governments of some Latin American nations. In fact, the royal families of Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and the UAE have intermarried considerably.


The issue will come down to how strong are the unifying forces of Pan-Arabism or Islamism and how strong is nationalistic sentiment?

The fact that all these revolutions are occurring simultaneously to me means that there is a chance that the common cause at a common time could motivate some unification.

[BlackCat]

You don't get it. Speaking same language (probably with variations) and having same religion doesn't mean that they are the same (actually, they don't have same religion, wich is one of the problems in the area). They have different history and have evolved differently.

Yankystan being multiethnic isn't a thing that joins, quite opposite. Honestly, the only thing that joins US is probably the currency and a strong federal government.

[Al B. Sure!]

Bavarians, Saxons, and Rheinlanders... Tuscans, Sicilians, and Neapolitans... English, Scottish, and Welsh...

[BlackCat]

Look at Latin America as a comparison. Here is a case where though the inhabitants of the region share the same Catholic faith, speak the same language, and have similar origins (although they are far more heterogeneous than Arabs), there are very strong national identities and the countries don't get along well at all.

What the heck are you talking about ?????

They may be cahtolics, but saying that the speak the same language and have similar origins is plain stupid. Brasil speaks portugese, colombia has a big indian ethnic population, argentina has (while spanish speaking) a large north european treat. Same goes for Uruguay. Etc.

Christ, Yankys

[Al B. Sure!]

What the heck are you talking about ?????

They may be cahtolics, but saying that the speak the same language and have similar origins is plain stupid. Brasil speaks portugese, colombia has a big indian ethnic population, argentina has (while spanish speaking) a large north european treat. Same goes for Uruguay. Etc.

Christ, Yankys

Did I not just say they are far more heterogeneous than Arabs?!