The day part of the Internet died: Egypt goes dark

[BlackCat]

Bavarians, Saxons, and Rheinlanders... Tuscans, Sicilians, and Neapolitans... English, Scottish, and Welsh...

They actually all speak different languages but are joined through conquests.

[Al B. Sure!]

They actually all speak different languages but are joined through conquests.

And guess what? Guess who doesn't speak different languages? Guess who speaks the same language, has a shared cultural heritage, same ethnicity, etc.?

Arab unification is far more plausible than German or Italian unification was.

[BlackCat]

Did I not just say they are far more heterogeneous than Arabs?!

Yeah, you did, while claiming that they had same religion, etnicity and language

[BlackCat]

And guess what? Guess who doesn't speak different languages? Guess who speaks the same language, has a shared cultural heritage, same ethnicity, etc.?

Arab unification is far more plausible than German or Italian unification was.

No. It took wars to unite germany an italy despite there was a high similarity thugh still diffences - same goes for north african countries, egypt, middle east states, iran iraq etc. They differ culturally despite religion and language.

[Al B. Sure!]

The way these revolutions have flared up and spread, they're ignoring national borders and boundaries.

[Al B. Sure!]

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/02/201121115231647934.html

The Egyptian revolution, itself influenced by the Tunisian uprising, has resurrected a new sense of pan-Arabism based on the struggle for social justice and freedom. The overwhelming support for the Egyptian revolutionaries across the Arab world reflects a sense of unity in the rejection of tyrannical, or at least authoritarian, leaders, corruption and the rule of a small financial and political elite.

Arab protests in solidarity with the Egyptian people also suggest that there is a strong yearning for the revival of Egypt as a pan-Arab unifier and leader. Photographs of Gamal Abdel Nasser, the former Egyptian president, have been raised in Cairo and across Arab capitals by people who were not even alive when Nasser died in 1970. The scenes are reminiscent of those that swept Arab streets in the 1950s and 1960s.

But this is not an exact replica of the pan-Arab nationalism of those days. Then, pan-Arabism was a direct response to Western domination and the 1948 establishment of the state of Israel. Today, it is a reaction to the absence of democratic freedoms and the inequitable distribution of wealth across the Arab world.

Events in Egypt and Tunisia have revealed that Arab unity against internal repression is stronger than that against a foreign threat - neither the American occupation of Iraq nor the Israeli occupation galvanised the Arab people in the way that a single act by a young Tunisian who chose to set himself alight rather than live in humiliation and poverty has.

[BlackCat]

The way these revolutions have flared up and spread, they're ignoring national borders and boundaries.

Sure. They saw that their neighbours could do it, so "so can we". It's not an organised revolt across the map. If it was 40-50 years ago, then maybe, but today people are fighting for a better Egypt, Bahrain, Tunesia, Libya etc. - not for a pan arab state.

[BlackCat]

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...231647934.html

That I don't hesitate to call pure BS

[Barnabas]

There are rumours that Kaddafi may escape to Venezuela

[BlackCat]

There are rumours that Kaddafi may escape to Venezuela

News here said that rumors said that he already was there, but Venezuela said no - unfortunatedly, I think that he will fight to the bitter end

[SlowwHand]

Gadaffy's son is as insane as the old man. "We'll fight until the last bullet."

Report: Jets attack Libya protesters

TRIPOLI — Libyan military aircraft fired live ammunition at crowds of anti-government protesters in Tripoli, Al-Jazeera television reported Monday.

"What we are witnessing today is unimaginable," said Adel Mohamed Saleh, an activist in the capital whose accounts could not be independently confirmed. "Warplanes and helicopters are indiscriminately bombing one area after another. There are many, many dead.

"Our people are dying. It is the policy of scorched earth," he said.


A Libyan airforce pilot walks next to his Mirage F1 fighter jet after landing Monday at Malta International Airport outside Valletta. Two Libyan fighter jets and two civilian helicopters landed unexpectedly in Malta. The fighter pilots said they wre seeking asylum.

[C0ckney]

On the contrary. All this means Pan-Arabism is dead and buried. At best Pan-Arabism was a Zombie, or better still a Frankenstein. Egypt and Syria had a go at it, only to have the Syrians split off again due to (perceived) Egpytian arrogance, and the fact that the Ba'ath Party could even get it's act together while in charge of both Irag and Syria tells the whole story for any fool to see.
The Arab world has never been united and it will probably never be, and certainly not in our lifetime. The region is rife with despots and idiots who will always play the 'Arab union' card while only caring about their own tribe or sect. Every revolt or revolution since Ottoman times has seen this scenario. Unfortunately there is little hope it'll change anytime soon.

i agree with this.

arabs feeling a shared desire to shake off the shackles of oppression and being inspired by events in neighbouring countries does not mean a revival of pan-arabism. i'm sure some people will talk in these terms, and some may even wish it to happen but the idea of a pan-arab state is extremely far fetched at this point.

[germanos]

They are (with the exception of Persia and Spain) Arab now.

There is a definite hope among both Pan-Arabists and Islamists to recreate the Umayyad Caliphate, though.

Of course. There are not enough of them though to even remotely speak of a Pan-Arabist resurection. The Islamists are probably larger in number, but they're split as well. (Again I must point out the shia-sunni split, but there are probably much more I don't know or haven't surfaced yet: the more fundamentalist a group is the bigger the chance they'll yell at another fundy group: Heretics!))

Many (not all but many) of these national identities are recent creations. What's the difference between Bahrain, Qatar, and the UAE?

And that makes them automatically pan-arabist? Haven't you been watching the news? In Bahrain the revolt is a consequence of a rift WITHIN Bahrain between Sunni and Shia (there they are again!). If the people on that small island already see enough reason to split how can you claim there's no difference between them and Qatar and others?

The most important factor that pan-arabism is a Phantom/Jinn is the fact that all arabs have their first allegiance to their Tribe. Any other is way behind, close to the point it's virtually non-existant (in that sense you are right with regard to nationalism). It a hopeless tribal society. And that works for all the countries of the Arab League.

[Heraclitus]

They actually all speak different languages but are joined through conquests.

And guess what? Guess who doesn't speak different languages? Guess who speaks the same language, has a shared cultural heritage, same ethnicity, etc.?

Arab unification is far more plausible than German or Italian unification was.

So you are saying that we will see one Arab state conquer a series of others under the banner of panArab nationalism in the near future? Didn't someone try that at one point.

[Heraclitus]

The way these revolutions have flared up and spread, they're ignoring national borders and boundaries.

1848

Its all the more impressive considering mass media where in their infancy back then and there was nothing like the internet.

Sure it had some consquences for German and Italian unification, which happened decades later. But we didn't see a panEuropean unification come out of it.