The day part of the Internet died: Egypt goes dark

[Heraclitus]

Keep in mind, Col. Gadfly has had a hand in international terrorism in the past and, as the events of the last few days show, he is a maniac.

Bombing your own capital dosen't necessarily mean you are a maniac it does however mean one is fighting a civil war.

[Wezil]

Okay Hera - If not Tripoli, where is Gadafi's support base?

[Heraclitus]

Okay Hera - If not Tripoli, where is Gadafi's support base?

Among the people who carried out the order to bomb Tripoli, duh.

[Wezil]

While this may ultimately end in civil war (from what I gather Libya is particularly tribal) what we have seen so far is a despot prepared to give any order necessary to maintain his rule. Until I see a support base in the public this is not a civil war.

[Heraclitus]

While this may ultimately end in civil war (from what I gather Libya is particularly tribal) what we have seen so far is a despot prepared to give any order necessary to maintain his rule. Until I see a support base in the public this is not a civil war.

What if we call it antiterrorism measures? Will you Americans be ok with it then?

[Wezil]

Bite your tongue.

I'm not an American.

[Heraclitus]

Bite your tongue.

I'm not an American.

Also works for Brits. And Russians.

But if you aren't any of the things on the list then I see how you might have a problem with it

[germanos]

What is the role if any of Pan-Arabism in all this? The way everything appears to be one big movement, might some of these countries merge?

On the contrary. All this means Pan-Arabism is dead and buried. At best Pan-Arabism was a Zombie, or better still a Frankenstein. Egypt and Syria had a go at it, only to have the Syrians split off again due to (perceived) Egpytian arrogance, and the fact that the Ba'ath Party could even get it's act together while in charge of both Irag and Syria tells the whole story for any fool to see.
The Arab world has never been united and it will probably never be, and certainly not in our lifetime. The region is rife with despots and idiots who will always play the 'Arab union' card while only caring about their own tribe or sect. Every revolt or revolution since Ottoman times has seen this scenario. Unfortunately there is little hope it'll change anytime soon.

[Al B. Sure!]

His location is right there... Ontario, Canada.

[Heraclitus]

On the contrary. All this means Pan-Arabism is dead and buried. At best Pan-Arabism was a Zombie, or better still a Frankenstein. Egypt and Syria had a go at it, only to have the Syrians split off again due to (perceived) Egpytian arrogance, and the fact that the Ba'ath Party could even get it's act together while in charge of both Irag and Syria tells the whole story for any fool to see.
The Arab world has never been united and it will probably never be, and certainly not in our lifetime. The region is rife with despots and idiots who will always play the 'Arab union' card while only caring about their own tribe or sect. Every revolt or revolution since Ottoman times has seen this scenario. Unfortunately there is little hope it'll change anytime soon.

Aren't you generally opposed to Nationalism? What makes the PanArab variety a exception?

[Heraclitus]

His location is right there... Ontario, Canada.

Location =/= nationality.

If however he is Canadian, my original line still applies.

Will you Americans be ok with it then?

[Al B. Sure!]

On the contrary. All this means Pan-Arabism is dead and buried. At best Pan-Arabism was a Zombie, or better still a Frankenstein. Egypt and Syria had a go at it, only to have the Syrians split off again due to (perceived) Egpytian arrogance, and the fact that the Ba'ath Party could even get it's act together while in charge of both Irag and Syria tells the whole story for any fool to see.
The Arab world has never been united and it will probably never be, and certainly not in our lifetime. The region is rife with despots and idiots who will always play the 'Arab union' card while only caring about their own tribe or sect. Every revolt or revolution since Ottoman times has seen this scenario. Unfortunately there is little hope it'll change anytime soon.

Never been unified?

Umayyad Caliphate:



Abbasid Caliphate:



Fatimid Caliphate:

[Heraclitus]

Just because a people have at one point been unified in a single political entity dosen't mean they ever will be again. (BTW notice how all of those Caliphates had massive oppressed nonArab populations? Also as far as I recall the Caliphates where based on Islamic unity as their ideology not nationalism.)

[Al B. Sure!]

The Caliphates were far more centralized than the Holy Roman Empire was... and most of the Holy Roman Empire was unified. It's called Germany.


Regardless, the Umayyad Caliphate especially is something that both Pan-Arabist and Islamist movements hope to harken back to.

[Heraclitus]

The Caliphates were far more centralized than the Holy Roman Empire was... and most of the Holy Roman Empire was unified. It's called Germany.

Austria.

Even Greater Germany didn't touch Switzerland which has a sizeable German population.