US Gun Laws

[Elok]

So they break into your house, knowing you're there, and don't scram when you start shooting? Again, what have you done to PO the local criminal element that badly, or pique their interest so much?

[KrazyHorse]

Elok, one thing you're forgetting is that it is quite possible to assert that his precautions are not reasonable from a selfish perspective and yet are from a social perspective.

Having a lot of people around who own handguns reduces MY chances of being a victim of burglary/home invasion. It might also be presumed to increase my chances of being a homicide victim of a dispute over my dog crapping in somebody else's yard, of course.

[Elok]

? I'm not arguing about gun ownership, I'm contesting his need for extended magazines. How often do commando squads break into his house?

[KrazyHorse]

What fraction of rounds fired do you think hit their target when we're talking about nighttime and inside a house with all sorts of objects and walls cluttering up the lines of fire?

[KrazyHorse]

Also, from the perspective of somebody who is neither a burglar or a gun owner, I would prefer that TMM kill the hypothetical burglars than have them manage to flee...

[Elok]

I imagine it varies wildly depending on circumstances. Accuracy of the gun, lighting, skill of the shooter, whatever. If it's a bump in the night, I'm assuming he's going to turn the light on before opening fire or his chances of hitting anything are almost nil even if the bump wasn't something innocuous. I'm also going to go ahead and figure that his home isn't gigantic, that he's not going to try and shoot through furniture, and that he hasn't bought a crummy gun or neglected to practice. Given that, and one or two assailants, I hope he doesn't go through more than twelve rounds. Certainly not thirty. If there's more than one or two assailants, he's screwed anyway unless they're totally stupid or unarmed.

And again, all that is assuming that they will stick around after the first shot. Which I really, really doubt. Regardless of skill, the invaders know they are in serious danger of losing their lives as soon as they hear a gun go off. If he doesn't live in the boonies, the gunfire is going to attract attention even if he hasn't called the cops. Do they want him, or his stuff, desperately enough to risk their lives?

EDIT: If they decide to bolt, does it make a difference if TMM has five shots, or fifteen, or thirty? They'll run if they have cover/they see an opening/he stops shooting long enough.

[KrazyHorse]

In all honesty, this is a stupid assertion:

I hope he doesn't go through more than twelve rounds.

[The Mad Monk]

You want to fire as few rounds as possible. That's defined to be as many rounds as you need to stop the target.

If you are going arm yourself, you owe it to yourself and your neighbors to not just buy a gun and plunk it a drawer unitl it's "needed". You need to practice the skills, on the range and in the shop, so you can act quickly, effectively, and, yes, safely, if the need arises.

Some dedicated forums mention the "Rule of Fives": If, at a range of five yards, you can pick up your weapon and put five rounds into a five inch circle in under five seconds, your chances of surviving an encounter goes up greatly. It's more difficult than it sounds, and I'm not quite there yet.

[Docfeelgood]

Elok, one thing you're forgetting is that it is quite possible to assert that his precautions are not reasonable from a selfish perspective and yet are from a social perspective.

Having a lot of people around who own handguns reduces MY chances of being a victim of burglary/home invasion. It might also be presumed to increase my chances of being a homicide victim of a dispute over my dog crapping in somebody else's yard, of course.

funny you mention..............
in my area seems all THOSE people who did not want there pit bulls have turrned them loose..so having my shotgun handy is not just for burglers.

[Elok]

In all honesty, this is a stupid assertion:

I hope he doesn't go through more than twelve rounds.

If it gets to a serious shootout, where the other guy is shooting back--again, this sounds absurd, he's a civilian and they're criminals--is it going to last twelve shots? If the other guy has a gun, he's going to shoot at TMM as soon as he sees him/gets shot at. If he doesn't have a gun, he ought to be out the door. If they're both popping in and out of cover and throwing potshots, like in the movies...beats me, ask Van Damme. Sounds like a matter of sheer luck in that case.

[Elok]

Some dedicated forums mention the "Rule of Fives": If, at a range of five yards, you can pick up your weapon and put five rounds into a five inch circle in under five seconds, your chances of surviving an encounter goes up greatly. It's more difficult than it sounds, and I'm not quite there yet.

I'm guessing this is a generic measure of raw skill/control over the firearm, not intended as a realistic simulation of combat conditions? Because there's no way in hell I'd hold still for five seconds while someone was shooting at me.

[Docfeelgood]

You want to fire as few rounds as possible. That's defined to be as many rounds as you need to stop the target.

If you are going arm yourself, you owe it to yourself and your neighbors to not just buy a gun and plunk it a drawer unitl it's "needed". You need to practice the skills, on the range and in the shop, so you can act quickly, effectively, and, yes, safely, if the need arises.

Some dedicated forums mention the "Rule of Fives": If, at a range of five yards, you can pick up your weapon and put five rounds into a five inch circle in under five seconds, your chances of surviving an encounter goes up greatly. It's more difficult than it sounds, and I'm not quite there yet.

Why I prefer a shotgun.....i don't sleep with my glasses on.
Besides, i cant shoot a pistol to hit a target the size of a barn to save my life.
Like pistols but cant shoot em.

[KrazyHorse]

I'm guessing this is a generic measure of raw skill/control over the firearm, not intended as a realistic simulation of combat conditions? Because there's no way in hell I'd hold still for five seconds while someone was shooting at me.

Now multiply by two assailants, assume the guy is moving, it's nighttime, and that it takes 2-3 hits to reasonably stop somebody. 12 rounds sounds like the bare minimum to me.

[The Mad Monk]

x-double'd

Correct. It's about getting the muscle memory into your forearm so that the pistol is lined up exactly the way it needs to be as soon as its brought up, and learning the way it kicks so you can compensate in followup shots.

It's five yards because that's the typical range for home defense.

[The Mad Monk]

Why I prefer a shotgun.....i don't sleep with my glasses on.
Besides, i cant shoot a pistol to hit a target the size of a barn to save my life.
Like pistols but cant shoot em.

The shotgun's in my basement computer room. No way I'm dealing with that thing just out of bed.