Religion: Real or Fake

[MOBIUS]

I missed your ****ed up moronic arguments - where have you been, man!?

[Nikolai]

Your conclusions, the Bible doesn't agree Lonestar. Jesus called us to make a difference HERE, on Earth, in this life time. He promises us eternal life in the light of God's love if we follow him and try our best. The only requirement is that we accept his gift of salvation and follow, believe in and thrust our lives in Jesus Christ.

This is his promise: "because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10.9)

Believe, confess you believe and follow God's commandments. Those are:

36 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?37 And he said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.38 This is the great and first commandment.39 And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.40 On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets. (Matthew 22.36-40)

And if you fail, God can always forgive you, because he loves you.

[Ben Kenobi]

I missed your ****ed up moronic arguments - where have you been, man!?

Working with younglings at the local Jedi Academy.

[Lonestar]

I wasn't looking for a definition of evil. I was asking how do you know this is evil? Did someone tell you that this was wrong? Did you figure it out yourself?

If I were a nihilist I could argue that hurting people means that they are weak. They must become stronger. So pain is a necessary fact of life, and you must overcome pain to get stronger.

So your argument is that people must blindly follow AUTHORITY(in this case a vengeful God who won't let you wear poly cotton?)?

To answer your question, I'd say I learned some of it from my parents(my Jewish Dad who, by the by, is on the "go to hell list" by your loving god), some of it from my Scoutmaster, some of it from my own reading, some of it from the Navy. In other words, multiple subjective sources to come to an objective conclusion.

[Nikolai]

What is all this talk about going to hell? God does not want anyone to go to hell.

[Ben Kenobi]

So your argument is that people must blindly follow AUTHORITY

No, not at all. Have you read Soren Kierkegaard? He argues that doubt is an essential part of faith, and that anyone who starts with doubt can reach faith.

Authority must be tested and challenged in order to be relied upon. You don't climb a mountain without first testing your equipment to make sure it is reliable.

But the question is, you put something else that is reliable so that you can test something that isn't reliable.

If you start from the principle that nothing at all is reliable in any way, how can you test something to prove that it can be relied upon?

To answer your question, I'd say I learned some of it from my parents(my Jewish Dad who, by the by, is on the "go to hell list" by your loving god),

I believe I've argued in the past that the Jews are the true sons and we are the dogs who eat the scraps from the table. Christians don't even have their own God, they have to borrow the Jewish one.

[Lonestar]

Your conclusions, the Bible doesn't agree Lonestar. Jesus called us to make a difference HERE, on Earth, in this life time. He promises us eternal life in the light of God's love if we follow him and try our best. The only requirement is that we accept his gift of salvation and follow, believe in and thrust our lives in Jesus Christ.

This is his promise: "because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10.9)

Believe, confess you believe and follow God's commandments. Those are:

36 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?37 And he said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.38 This is the great and first commandment.39 And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.40 On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets. (Matthew 22.36-40)

And if you fail, God can always forgive you, because he loves you.

Actually, the Jesus pretty explicitly says you have to follow the Old Law:

Matthew 5:17-19: "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfil. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

So am I to interpet that you are ready to give up non kocher food, get back to stoning heretics, and stop wearing polycotton?

Or are you taking the "UH, well God forgives all" route?

Which really is "God grants you absolution for commiting crimes and artocities". It literally is a case where, according to your theology, Adolf Hitler would be let into Heaven(and a state of eternal bliss) if he said on his deathbed that Jesus was Lord and believed it. Of course he believed that anyway.

Either God doesn't exist, God exists but isn't the Abrahamaic God, or God is a horrible tyrant in the vein of the worst dictators in human history. Which is it?

[Lonestar]

What is all this talk about going to hell? God does not want anyone to go to hell.

No, just in his "kindness in giving free will" allows billions to go to hell for eternal suffering.

[Nikolai]

As Jesus himself said in your quote, he came to fullfill. And as he said in my quote, loving God and loving your neighbour IS fullfilling the law.

[Lonestar]

No, not at all. Have you read Soren Kierkegaard? He argues that doubt is an essential part of faith, and that anyone who starts with doubt can reach faith.

Authority must be tested and challenged in order to be relied upon. You don't climb a mountain without first testing your equipment to make sure it is reliable.

But the question is, you put something else that is reliable so that you can test something that isn't reliable.

If you start from the principle that nothing at all is reliable in any way, how can you test something to prove that it can be relied upon?

So why do you believe in a terrible vengeful god of which no evidence exists?

I believe I've argued in the past that the Jews are the true sons and we are the dogs who eat the scraps from the table. Christians don't even have their own God, they have to borrow the Jewish one.

Nope sorry, tell me where in the New Testament it says that Jews still get out of going to Hell for not believing that Jesus is the Messiah.

[Lonestar]

As Jesus himself said in your quote, he came to fullfill. And as he said in my quote, loving God and loving your neighbour IS fullfilling the law.

He also said that he didn't come to DESTROY the Law. In other words, all the horrible things(and less horrible things) in the Books of Moses are still on the table. When are you going to be converting to an all-Kosher lifestyle and keeping slaves?

[Ben Kenobi]

So why do you believe in a terrible vengeful god of which no evidence exists?

Cause he promises to fix this ****ty ass body and everlasting life.

Nope sorry, tell me where in the New Testament it says that Jews still get out of going to Hell for not believing that Jesus is the Messiah.

They don't. People have a choice they can live their life and do the things that make them happy here. Or they can live for the next with reward in heaven.

[Lonestar]

Cause he promises to fix this ****ty ass body and everlasting life.



They don't. People have a choice they can live their life and do the things that make them happy here. Or they can live for the next with reward in heaven.

"I'm Omnipotent, but I'm giving you 'free will' so I can arbitrarily condemn you to eternal suffering if you don't brown nose enough. Oh yeah and there won't be any actual evidence of my existence. You know Yahweh loves ya!"

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm Omnipotent, but I'm giving you 'free will' so I can arbitrarily condemn you to eternal suffering if you don't brown nose enough. Oh yeah and there won't be any actual evidence of my existence. You know Yahweh loves ya!

He could make it so we have no choice but to obey him. Instead he permits us to do pretty much whatever the hell we want to do. The consequences? Absolutely none, until after the train has left the station.

So if there's no God at all, what do you have to be worried about? The only reason his character would matter is because you believe he DOES exist.

Anyways, have long day tomorrow. Would be happy to continue with you but I must sleep.

[Lonestar]

He could make it so we have no choice but to obey him. Instead he permits us to do pretty much whatever the hell we want to do. The consequences? Absolutely none, until after the train has left the station.

So, Omnipotent(and omnescient) but gets a kick out of seeing people screw up and burn in hell for all time due to insufficient brown nosing.

So if there's no God at all, what do you have to be worried about? The only reason his character would matter is because you believe he DOES exist.

Anyways, have long day tomorrow. Would be happy to continue with you but I must sleep.

Good question, and I was wondering when a member of the God Squad would bring this up.

The answer is that the God Squad are more likely to push their worldview on to me through official means than the atheists. If I travel somewhere farther South(in Virginia) Blue Laws close merchants on Sundays, elected officials on school boards will pander to the God Squad and tell outright lies in history texts, while carefully talking about "teaching the controversy" in science. If I take the stand in a trial I am automatically "the bad guy" if I don't swear on a Bible or say "so help me God".

Crap, I can't even hold public office in Texas!

Since I moved to a apartment complex without a gate I've had Christians of various stripes(Mormons, JWs, Baptists) solicit at unlikely hours. Would you care to guess how many secularist organizations I've had solicit? None, zero, zilch. By and large secularist groups don't go "you know what? We need to go get into peoples personal lives!".

Meanwhile you and others go "oh, why do you care if God exists or not?" And the answer is...I really don't. The PROBLEM is that the God Squad in the US sets out to try to force their world view on others no matter what. What's worst is that the God Squad does so while advocating the worship of someone who has all the dog whistles of the worst of petty human tyrants. And He(assuming He exists, or rather, exists as the Abrahamaic Religions describe him) gets a pass for acting like an monster because "He loves us."

And since God doesn't like Homosexuals, working on the Sabbath, or alcohol, or premarital sex, or polycotton, or not getting your pecker mutilated, or birth control, or teaching science in a science class then obviously it is up to the God Squad to help save the country from the Godless Secularists. We must marginalize them in society and by the way I'm sure that the only reason why they aren't religious is because they've never heard of Christianity before, so I'm going to knock on their door at 2130 on a Friday night to give them the Good Word.