I'm not sure one should dismiss God anymore

[SlowwHand]

In all honesty, I find it hard to believe that an omnipotent being who is responsible for all creation will choose to punish nonbelief with eternal damnation, so the standard Christian belief is a bit strange to me...

No, the Christian belief says "Judge not, lest ye be judged". It ain't my problem. No one owes me an explanation, and I don't owe anyone else. JUST like I said and have said many times.

[Felch]

Is that standard (i.e. Catholic)? I think that the explanation is that people choose to reject God and damn themselves. Hell isn't imposed on us by God, it is the natural consequence of rejecting His love. I'd look up a source on that, but I'm too lazy.

[SlowwHand]

I'm going to say this, again, as plainly as possible. I don't know what Catholics and they that call themselves Catholics, or Baptists or Church of Christ say. I'm telling you what I read in the Bible.
It isn't up to me who goes to Heaven. Actually, as strange as KH's hypothesis is, it's possible. Although, it's written that "whosoever believes in me will not perish", so I don't THINK his hypothesis is correct.
I know who you're talking about, and whether I agree with him or not, isn't important in the long run. Neither of us knows, and neither makes the decision about if we get in or who else gets in.
Again, I have my own self to worry about making better. That thought, in and of itself, may send me to Hell, but who knows? HE knows. Not me. I just hope He grades on a curve. Otherwise, I'm screwed.

[MikeH]

An intellectual recognition that you need God due to emotional/psychological/spiritual/mental reasons is still an intellectual reason.

Many people who intellectually dismiss God due so from the standpoint of "I don't need to believe in God to believe that the universe exists, so I don't believe in God". I don't agree with the standpoint, but it isn't incompatible with believing in God for the other reasons (which are the strongest reasons).

I would say that my primary reasons are emotional/psychological/spiritual in nature.

JM

Why not address the underlying emotional problem rather than resorting to a feel good myth?

[Jon Miller]

Because it is not a myth, and the spiritual (and emotional) problem can not be solved any other way.

JM

[Sir Og]

JM you are the strangest beleiver that I know.

[Robert]

In all honesty, I find it hard to believe that an omnipotent being who is responsible for all creation will choose to punish nonbelief with eternal damnation, so the standard Christian belief is a bit strange to me...

Define 'nonbelief' and define 'punish'.
I think that your definition would indeed lead to your conclusion. ('find it hard to believe that....')
But I do not think that your definition is the christian definition, and most certainly not God's definition.

if 'nobelief' = 'I do not believe God exists'
and 'punish' = 'buwhahaah I will now do something that hurts you to make you pay'

then I would be an atheist right now. No, not an atheist but an anti-christian, because I would reject such a God, even if he would exist.

I'd say that christianity (or at least me myself) would define:
'nonbelief' = 'be my own god rather then let God be my god. I'm the one who makest he calls, not he.'
'punish' = 'as a conclusion to "my nonbelief" god decides that I'd better be not with God anymore, but placed in a place where God is not and where I can factually be my own god in my own place and environment. That the latter may not be a nice place is not the purpose but the result of being my own god while reject God's authority'

If you add to that that if God renews his creation and removes evil from it, that then it would not be good if God would place people in this re-created place that have decided they want to define 'evil' themselves, and thus run the risk to re-introduce 'evil' in this 'recreated' place again.

I think that makes sense from a righteous rational point of view.
The question that remains then is: does this God exist or not.

[Robert]

Why not address the underlying emotional problem rather than resorting to a feel good myth?

I kinda agree with MikeH.
I do not think that 'Christianity' has been 'invented' to 'solve' our 'problems'.
On the other hand, one can of course experience the loss of something valuable after rejecting something that used to be a part of his life in the past, and then make the rational decision that he has to accept this thing again because it has (or may have) caused the loss of that thing valuable.

[Ben Kenobi]

Same here. Glad to have you Hera.

[Ben Kenobi]

I kinda agree with MikeH.
I do not think that 'Christianity' has been 'invented' to 'solve' our 'problems'.
On the other hand, one can of course experience the loss of something valuable after rejecting something that used to be a part of his life in the past, and then make the rational decision that he has to accept this thing again because it has (or may have) caused the loss of that thing valuable.

You are right. However, we were made for God, so it makes sense that if we reject him that we would suffer for it. Not because God is actively doing something to us, but because our life where we, 'get to be God', is not a very nice place.

[Ben Kenobi]

JM you are the strangest beleiver that I know.

Really? I find him to be quite sincere and earnest about all this, which is a pleasure to see. Nothing 'strange' at all.

[Ben Kenobi]

Is that standard (i.e. Catholic)? I think that the explanation is that people choose to reject God and damn themselves. Hell isn't imposed on us by God, it is the natural consequence of rejecting His love. I'd look up a source on that, but I'm too lazy.

Yep, people who reject God get to live in eternity without him.

[Heraclitus]

I would argue that that is required for a true belief in God. To attempt to just intellectualize a need for God doesn't really get you there. While, Hera, I think you may be going about it somewhat strangely, I wish you the best of luck and find whatever it is you are looking for.

I think to need to emphasise that there are also emotional and spiritual reasons behind my search, reason is always a slave of the passions so to speak. Yesterday I was somewhat drunk, but I did realize I had taken the wrong way in the past year or so. This is compounded by the feeling that yes indeed my prayer was answered.

I think that's a very good idea. I've pointed it out before to these atheists. If they're right, so what? I'll never know. If I'm right, they have to deal with the consequences.

I'm sympathetic to the sentiment Sloww but Pascal's wager isn't really the argument I was going by.

Is that standard (i.e. Catholic)? I think that the explanation is that people choose to reject God and damn themselves. Hell isn't imposed on us by God, it is the natural consequence of rejecting His love. I'd look up a source on that, but I'm too lazy.

I think this is right.

Because it is not a myth, and the spiritual (and emotional) problem can not be solved any other way.

JM

I think I sent a PM to someone with similar content to someone yesterday, muddled of course but this basic line of thought was there as well.

[MikeH]

Yep, people who reject God get to live in eternity without him.

So I get to live in eternity either way? Win win.

[Heraclitus]

So I get to live in eternity either way? Win win.

I think Christians disagree on this, I think a theologian (presumably a heretic from my POV) once said "make no mistake a human soul is mortal, but by the grace of God its possible for the soul not to die."