Cameron's Big Society

[Jon Miller]

my public schools were ****, kucis was great.

I think more are **** than are great based on the students I remember teaching in college.

JM

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

also do you think that the 'free schools' in sweden are screwing up children's education at the moment?

Compared to their immediate neighbour, Finland, for example?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment

[Snotty]

this is actually a potentially interesting thread, or at least it would be if people don't go down the usual route with ben...

I guess its too much to ask to have a reasoned discussion about the difficultys of building cohesive neighbourhoods in urban and suburban areas.

[C0ckney]

ummm that's nice, doesn't actually address the point or prove anything though does it.

x-post: obviously what i wrote was in response to laz.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Finland provides a good example of why a knee-jerk prejudice against state schooling on principles is ill-founded.

[C0ckney]

that's your answer to my question?

ok well, sweden provides a good example of why a knee-jerk prejudice against non-state organisations providing state funded education to children is ill-founded.

[Heraclitus]

You guys don't get it. The graduation rate is meaningless. In fact, it's bull ****. It's a lie.

True.

Americans aren't smart.

Not really, Americans are on a global scale pretty smart.

[Heraclitus]

Also I find it hilarious no one in this thread figures out that public schools aren't bad compared to private ones because they are bad schools or have poor teachers but because they have worse students than private schools.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Also I find it hilarious no one in this thread figures out that public schools aren't bad compared to private ones because they are bad schools or have poor teachers but because they have worse students than private schools.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day... what I'm saying is that Hera is actually correct here. Private school can kick out bad students. Public schools can't and they have to try to deal with them, which does tend to hurt their bottom line numbers.

[giblets]

Also I find it hilarious no one in this thread figures out that public schools aren't bad compared to private ones because they are bad schools or have poor teachers but because they have worse students than private schools.

You're right about no one else thinking black people are too stupid to graduate, but you're not the only person who is aware that differences in student populations make private schools appear better.

[Ben Kenobi]

You're right about no one else thinking black people are too stupid to graduate, but you're not the only person who is aware that differences in student populations make private schools appear better.

So you are saying that blacks are the reasons why public schools perform worse than private schools? Isn't that, like, racist or something?

[giblets]

So you are saying that blacks are the reasons why public schools perform worse than private schools? Isn't that, like, racist or something?

Heraclitus is probably thinking something about race. I'm saying that after accounting for socioeconomic status private schools aren't that much more effective.

[Ben Kenobi]

Heraclitus is probably thinking something about race.

You are the only one who's even mentioned race.

I'm saying that after accounting for socioeconomic status private schools aren't that much more effective.

I'm saying there's a reason why those people who can afford to pay for their children's education choose to put them in private school. It's simple rational choice by economic actors. If in fact private schools were inferior, then no one would use them over the free option of public schools.

[giblets]

I'm saying there's a reason why those people who can afford to pay for their children's education choose to put them in private school. It's simple rational choice by economic actors. If in fact private schools were inferior, then no one would use them over the free option of public schools.

By that logic, if public schools were inferior then voters would elect politicians who would replace public schools with voucher programs.

[OzzyKP]

But the idea that conservatism should be decided to helping local communities and developing a more communitarian ethos is something that has fallen away in the US, especially since the 1970s.

True. Though Bush's "compassionate conservationism" (while it lasted) seems to be this. His faith-based initiatives definitely fits within this mold.

One hopes he has more success than LBJ. After all shoving large amounts of money down a rat hole to fund failing domestic programs as LBJ did can't be good in the current political environment in the UK.I think it has more to do with a valid suspicion of the Federal government's ability to do that rather than a hostility toward the notion.

Don't confuse "Big Society" with "Great Society", you should read the article. Cameron's idea is to switch from government run services to non-profit, private run services.

I doubt that. It seems most conservatives seem to like hyperindividuality, not realizing that total free market capitalism (for one) is somewhat destructive to a community focused viewpoint.

There definitely needs to be a balance. There is an understanding (which I agree with) that the government is unjustly coercive does a poor job of providing services, and that private entities can do that better. Not enough time gets spent emphasizing and promoting those private entities though. It should be noted though that (I believe) conservatives give more to charity than liberals do. I don't think that gets pointed out enough (either by themselves or the media).