What do you think of hate crimes?

[Al B. Sure!]

Matthew Shepard will rest easier knowing that.

And James Byrd, Jr.

[Al B. Sure!]

Would Matthew Shepard's murder have been prevented if we'd had a hate crimes law on the books?

No but that doesn't mean that it doesn't add an additional dimension of heinousness to the crime.

Rape is rape but we make a distinction when a 14 year old girl is raped.

[OzzyKP]

You know... why is it that in the US we don't have this problem? We have terrorists gunning to blow things up and crash planes into buildings but we don't have immigrant Muslims mobbing Americans. What are you Europeans doing wrong?

[notyoueither]

Would Matthew Shepard's murder have been prevented if we'd had a hate crimes law on the books?

Since when is deterrence the only function of criminal law?

[MrFun]

Yes, that was exactly what I was talking about. The issue is that such conditions no longer exist - there's basically nowhere left where systematic violence against any given minority is condoned.

A segment of American population still condone violence against gays and lesbians. Example - those who openly celebrated the beating and killing of Matthew Shepherd in 1998.

[DRoseDARs]

Hate crimes should figure into sentencing ala motive but should not be a crime of themselves.

That compromise I find palatable, though it matters how much the judge's own ...er, judgment factors in. It is supposed to be an impartial bench, ruling on the merits of cases before it, but judges are Human and are fully capable of dishonoring their robe and ruling unfairly for either side of the case. I wouldn't want a judge going too harshly on a defendant when the facts of the case don't warrant it any more than I would want one going too softly all because of their own personal feelings on the matter of homosexuality.

[Ben Kenobi]

We have terrorists gunning to blow things up and crash planes into buildings

I don't see Islam appearing anywhere, Albert.

[Al B. Sure!]

I don't see Islam appearing anywhere, Albert.

Who else crashed a plane into a building?

[David Floyd]

Who else crashed a plane into a building?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Austin_plane_crash

[Al B. Sure!]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Austin_plane_crash

I was isolated from the entire world between Jan. 15th and March 3rd. First I hear about that. An anti-tax terrorist, eh?

[David Floyd]

Christians are just as crazy as Muslims. Fortunately, the fringe of Christianity doesn't ANYMORE seem to be quite as militant as the fringe of Islam. Although, to be fair, by "fringe of Islam", I am probably referring to around half of Muslims worldwide, so in comparison, the number of Christians who commit violent crimes in the name of their religion is fairly limited, and in this country, mainly limited to anti-abortionists and anti-gay people (although no, not all of them).

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

I think hate crimes are a transparent attempt to wiggle around the first amendment and punish people for having the wrong opinions

Where opinions constitute mens rea, and concide with actus reus, they impact on punishment. It was around before the US constitution existed, and was a feature of criminal law that the US constitution never changed.

You've had over 200 years to address this issue in your constitution, if it's really so bothersome. Go to it.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Also, while the courts are perfectly competent to judge motive, there is a civil liberties concern with introducing to the courtroom what is in practice a political test.

What's with the "introducing" there? That makes it sound like something new, which it isn't.

Criminal law and penology has never been purely about the transgressor and the victim. The impact on wider society has always been a consideration, and laws have adapted to reflect social mores accordingly. I can give you examples of this from the 10th century AD if you'd like.

[Dauphin]

Aren't a lot of crimes hateful even when not hate crimes?

Trivial examplem if someone keys an expensive car because they don't like rich people, isn't that a crime of hate?

[Heraclitus]

The real problem is how its decided if something is a hate crime. There are some clear examples like a bunch Black Israelites decided to ritually murder Whites or Jews or some fringe NeoNazis getting together to shoots some Blacks.


Can people tell me what they think of these two examples:

1. A member of group A attacks someone from group B yelling "goddamn second place on alphabet guy" (a really bad slur in Alphabet city), "We should have kept all the Btards like you in the ghetto" at him. Is this a hate crime?

2. Group A is disproportionately targeting group B for some violent acts.When a member of group A attacks a member of group B in a manner consistent with the victims being targeted because of their group affiliation. Can we use hate crime laws to discourage such targeting?