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What do you think of hate crimes?

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  • What do you think of hate crimes?

    I think it's a poor term that should be abolished.

    My friend called me late last night, appalled and shocked of a hate crime. We had the Pride parade here, the gay parade, and some douches attacked it with a smoke grenade, pepper spray or an equivalent. 3 people tasted the smoke but are OK.

    While I do find it certainly a crime, and while I might agree that it is a more serious in nature because it was an attack that took place during an open parade that could be similar to a protest or demonstration, but a peaceful one, thus an attack against free speech... I could agree with that. I would certainly, as a judge, weigh that in.

    But my friend was upset because "they were nazis, I can't live in this country if we have this right wing movement, these nazis". He kept going on about nazis and swastikas. I was thinking that this must have like some psychological implications, because it was most likely some idiot kids, or youth, or young adults, who do not present a huge danger. Certainly not a nazi level threat of holocaust. I was quite amazed by the level of drama, I mean come on, have you read what the nazis did? They didn't throw one some grenade. They actually killed a lot of people and tried to wipe out things they listed. We had few idiots who probably do hate gays. At this point I protested because it was late and I was provoked to get a call like this late at night.

    So I said, listen, I think it was bunch of idiots, I hardly consider them a threat unless otherwise noted. I'm sure the cops are looking into their connections.

    "YEah, but it's a hate crime"

    "A hate crime? What's the difference? They did what they did. The victims suffer all the same"

    "Yeah but it's worse."

    "how is it worse?"

    "Well, it's the law"

    "The law? So what."

    "Just saying. Umm.. if you beat up someone, then if you beat up someone and it's a hate crime, it's far more worse if it's a hate crime"

    At this point I was truly dumbfounded. How is it worse?

    Can someone explain me please? My position is that we are equal regardless of sex, race, level of gayness, color of skin, etc. And so we should be all protected the same. And should we be victims of a crime, it's always as serious as if it happened to someone else, meaning that we always take it seriously.
    In da butt.
    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

  • #2
    I can still accept that hate crime laws are considered. However, to say that OMG nazis are here, to me I think that's disrespectful of all the victims of the holocaust. I don't speak for them, but I think if you compare some idiot to the real horror of human action... you're just not right in the head.
    In da butt.
    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

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    • #3
      Yeah, I'm not sure why hate crime laws are needed. Maybe hate crimes make members of victimized groups feel threatened? I can see how a hate crime could be seen as affecting an entire group, make it more serious than something that only affects an individual.
      Last edited by giblets; July 10, 2010, 10:07.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Pekka View Post
        "A hate crime? What's the difference? They did what they did. The victims suffer all the same"

        Mens rea.

        A boxer punches another boxer and kills him during a boxing match.

        Now what if the same boxer punches the same other boxer and kills him, but during a street brawl?

        The difference is mens rea. It's not new. It's not trendy. It's not politically correct. It's been a foundation of criminal law for centuries.

        This is why some crimes with the same actus reus are punished differently.
        The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

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        • #5
          These sort of threads usually end up featuring at least one poster, who reads lots of Ayn Rand and makes lots of lists, insisting that a person's state of mind shouldn't be taken into consideration, and we should reduce the criminal law system to a list of actions with a statutory sentence attached to each one.

          And then I mock them heartily, and at considerable length.
          The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

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          • #6
            We can only hope that history repeats itself, as that is always good for a hearty laugh.
            "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
            "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

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            • #7
              I think the objection to the term "hate crime" stems in large part from the feeling that people are using the law to enforce political correctness.
              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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              • #8
                And they are often some combination of straight, white, male and/or Christian. You don't generally see a black man, a Jew, or a lesbian objecting to the term from a hospital bed or witness stand.
                The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.

                The Weighted Companion Cube is cheating on you, that slut.

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                • #9
                  There's a much bigger pool of straight, white, male and/or Christian who are not in a hospital bed or on a witness stand, so even if your statement is true, it is not significant.
                  I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DanS View Post
                    There's a much bigger pool of straight, white, male and/or Christian who are not in a hospital bed or on a witness stand, so even if your statement is true, it is not significant.
                    That's kinda the point there, genius.
                    The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.

                    The Weighted Companion Cube is cheating on you, that slut.

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                    • #11
                      As in, "Alex, I'll take 'People unlikely to be the victims of hate crimes complaining about the term 'Hate Crimes'' for $500..."
                      The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.

                      The Weighted Companion Cube is cheating on you, that slut.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DanS View Post
                        I think the objection to the term "hate crime" stems in large part from the feeling that people are using the law to enforce political correctness.

                        And then I link them to examples of them being used on nutter Imams, or Muslim kids out to kill any Christian/Jew kids. And then those people act like they haven't seen me post, or declare that such examples are exceptions that prove a rule they have no figures for.

                        I've been down this road many times.
                        The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pekka View Post
                          What do you think of hate crimes?
                          I'm against them.
                          Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

                          When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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                          • #14
                            I sometimes wonder how prosecutors go about proving 'hate'. Yes, if there is witness testimony that the perpetrator was yelling epithets and that he had a history of association with hate groups, it's clear, but I suspect not every hate crime conviction is this obvious.
                            "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                            "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny View Post
                              And then I link them to examples of them being used on nutter Imams, or Muslim kids out to kill any Christian/Jew kids. And then those people act like they haven't seen me post, or declare that such examples are exceptions that prove a rule they have no figures for.
                              I would expect that the penalties on the books for the actual crimes would be sufficient. It holds for nutter imams too.
                              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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