Ban on gay blood donors upheld by panel

[Al B. Sure!]

People who are promiscius and engage in more risky forms of sex get more STDs.

That should be clarified for Ben... risky forms of sex as in having unprotected sex whether heterosexual or homosexual. Protected homosexual sex is not inherently riskier than protected heterosexual sex.

[Heraclitus]

That should be clarified for Ben... risky forms of sex as in having unprotected sex whether heterosexual or homosexual. Protected homosexual sex is not inherently riskier than protected heterosexual sex.

+1

However by a very small margin protected vaginal sex is a bit safer than protected anal sex (dosen't matter if a dude or a girl is getting it in da but).

[MrFun]

Don't know. Black men, despite being 10 percent of the American Population report half of the HIV transmission. If the rate of homosexuality is as it is in Brazil, it would explain the incidence.

Are you suggesting that because they hide their homosexuality that it means it's not there? It would mean that it would seem to be less among the black community but the reality would be far different.

HIV and AIDS does not give a **** what your sexual orientation is. The greater rate of HIV infection among members of minority groups does not indicate a greater proportion of them being gay. It's that HIV infection rate is occurring among straight people as well as gay people.

[Ben Kenobi]

Perceptions are rarely true

The facts support this behaviour. Gay men are disproportionately infected with HIV. The question has nothing to do with racism, but everything about the question as to why. My argument is that they are more likely to engage in risky behaviour which is the primary vector for the disease.

And if the perception becomes self-fulfilling (as seems to be the case here) it does not mean the perception was originally correct.

This is a poor line of argumentation. If the overall pool of sexual partners is smaller, all else being equal, you would expect them to have fewer HIV infections. This is clearly not the case.

And do you know how HIV spreads? It's not about engaging in sodomy!

The primary disease vector, as has already been remarked by KH earlier in the thread is men having anal sex with other men. Number two is intravenous drug use.

It's about having sexual relations (gay or straight) with someone who has already contracted the disease.

On an epidemiological basis, this is rather unlikely. Otherwise we'd see more straight people, but as a proportion, 50 percent of the total HIV infections come from men who have engaged in anal sex with other men.

Of that 50 percent, 50 percent of these are black gay men. These are all facts, Albert.

You do realize you could have insane amounts of glorious gay sodomy with men who don't have HIV and you'll never contract the disease.

That's true, just as much as if there's no bullet in the chamber that you will never lose at russian roulette. Still, would you try without first checking the chamber?

[Ben Kenobi]

HIV and AIDS does not give a **** what your sexual orientation is. The greater rate of HIV infection among members of minority groups does not indicate a greater proportion of them being gay.

Why not? It's a logical answer to the question.

It's that HIV infection rate is occurring among straight people as well as gay people.

That's not the argument here. I'm not talking about those folks.

Mr. Fun, say we take your argument that 5 percent of the overall population is a gay man.

This 5 percent of the population exhibits 50 percent of the overall HIV infection rate. This means they are 10 times as likely to contract HIV as the general population.

Now, knowing that 10 percent of the population is black, that means we would expect to see 5 percent of the overall HIV infections coming from black gay men. This is not the case. Instead we see 25 percent of the overall infection rate.

Now, if we assume that black people are just as likely to be gay as anyone else, this means that what would be 10 percent of 10 percent, or 1 percent of the overall population has 25x the HIV infection rate as anybody else. 25 times, Mr. Fun.

Aren't you the least bit concerned? Yes, you are right that straight people can contract HIV too. But there's just no comparison here.

[Ben Kenobi]

Protected homosexual sex is not inherently riskier than protected heterosexual sex.

Again, would you expect the difference for black men to be 25x as high if this were the case? Or that gay sex overall, protected or not, is 10x as risky?

Here's a thought experiment. If half of the gay people were to use condoms, and the intrinsic risk were 10x as high, we'd see an incidence of 5x.

What we do see is an incidence of 10x. If half of gay people are, in fact, using condoms, the intrinsic risk of sodomy would be around 20x as risky.

Are you asserting this is true, Albert?

[Ben Kenobi]

There may be a slightly higher rate of STDs in the Black population due to closeted gays

Hera, the incidence is 25x. Do you consider this to be a 'slightly higher rate'? No, I don't.

Diferences in STD rates are not a good reason to think there is a greater proportion of gay Blacks than Whites.

Why not?

For example one of the reasons for higher HIV rates in some African countries is the practice of dry sex which makes women more vonureable to infections. Just a different practice in a diffrenet cultural context. No gays involved.

That's not the case in the US. If it were sub-saharan Africa, then sure, but this is America.

We don't see 30 percent of the adult population infected here. There's just no comparison between the two.

[Hauldren Collider]

Guys, Ben is a dumb**** racist homophobe. DO NOT ARGUE WITH HIM IN THESE THREADS. It is like trying to teach a guinea pig to read; the guinea pig will look at you stupidly and then take a bite out of the paper. This is the level of intellectualism he exhibits. Put him on your ignore list like me. Trust me trust me TRUST ME your sanity will THANK YOU FOR IT

[Ben Kenobi]

Hey maybe Ben just doesn't know how HIV spreads. Maybe he was taught it was God punishing the sodomites. Hopefully, he's reading up on wikipedia now.

Take your choice, anal sex, or sodomy. The terms are interchangeable.

The primary vector of HIV transmission is through anal sex between men. That's a fact Albert.

[Ben Kenobi]

racist homophobe

Are you claiming that I'm lying about HIV incidence being higher in black Americans? How is this a racist preposition?

[Asher]

Not only deaf, he's also blind.

[Hauldren Collider]

I never said he was deaf. Is he really deaf? I mean, yes obviously he has dyslexia or something because HE CAN NEVER ACTUALLY FIGURE OUT WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING, and assumes things, and outright fabricates others' arguments. But that doesn't have anything to do with whether you can hear.

[Asher]

I never said he was deaf. Is he really deaf? I mean, yes obviously he has dyslexia or something because HE CAN NEVER ACTUALLY FIGURE OUT WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING, and assumes things, and outright fabricates others' arguments. But that doesn't have anything to do with whether you can hear.

He is deaf. He tells us every time we make fun of him. "I'm so special, I'm deaf"

[MrFun]

My head hurts.

[Al B. Sure!]

Ben isn't deaf deaf... I think he's just hearing impaired, right? Like he can hear a little with a hearing aide or something? I remember him posting a song in a thread before.