Ships to Gaza incident

[Al B. Sure!]

Do we really need to go down that path of debating the shadiness of NY, LA, and Philly PD, the shadiness of prosecutors, and the shadiness of public defenders? I'm a Republican but I'm not going to act like there's not questionable things going on, especially with regards to minority suspects.

[KrazyHorse]

It's almost as though you don't understand the difference between the legal principle and the specifics of a given case.

[Asher]

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/06/gaza.flotilla.recordings/index.html

More shocking news. Israel admits to editing the audio tapes they released...and "accidentally" named some anti-Semitic comments on the tape as coming from a flotilla vessel, which they now admit is not the case.

They're trying really hard to manage the information here. It's China-esque...

[Al B. Sure!]

I think there are plenty of people who were willing to say that a lot of mistakes were made by both sides and both sides were partially at fault, etc. but why does Israel continue to look like a douche over this? Even if they were completely in the right, their attitude is making them look really bad.

[notyoueither]

I'm becoming less and less convinced that the Israelis were in the wrong here.

The major issue is the nine dead. The more I think about it the more I think about the term suicide by cop.

[Kuciwalker]

It's fascinating that Asher still hasn't come up with a coherent reason for why it's bad Israel did this in international waters other than "it's against the law".

Movie piracy is also against the law, but IIRC Asher has a pretty large hard drive full of them

[MOBIUS]

It's interesting to watch Asher out-pedanting Kuci.

K: your moral sense has become considerably more refined since I last remember.

It's called growing up - clearly he still has a long way to go...

[Gibsie]

Movie piracy is also against the law, but IIRC Asher has a pretty large hard drive full of them

Yes but only one of the "crimes" typically results in the death of innocents. I am of course referring to movie piracy, which my gubment tells me funds terrorism, drug trafficking and the construction of North Korea's spacefleet.

[MOBIUS]

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/me...ngs/index.html

More shocking news. Israel admits to editing the audio tapes they released...and "accidentally" named some anti-Semitic comments on the tape as coming from a flotilla vessel, which they now admit is not the case.

They're trying really hard to manage the information here. It's China-esque...

So, basically being caught making stuff up on the video? I still note they haven't shown footage of BEFORE - where the activists claimed Israel opened fire with lethal force without provocation! Where is the full footage - what are they trying to hide?

[Kuciwalker]

Yes but only one of the "crimes" typically results in the death of innocents.

Just as many innocents would have died had Israel shot 9 people inside their territorial waters.

[MikeH]

The point is you can't charge someone with murder if they haven't committed murder.

Er... yes you can, you can charge them if you think they have committed murder and you think you can prove it, sometimes in the UK at least suspects need to be formally charged to allow you to question them further. Quite often people who didn't actually commit the murder are charged.

[MOBIUS]

Yes but only one of the "crimes" typically results in the death of innocents.

Just as many innocents would have died had Israel shot 9 people inside their territorial waters.

But during daylight Israel wouldn't have been able to murder a bunch of people under cover of darkness and basically get away with it...

On the subject of Israel murdering innocent civilians and getting away with it (something it's been doing on a regular basis since 1948 - so why stop now?), I'm surprised no one has mentioned its entirely unprovoked attack on Tunisia in 1985 resulting in the deaths of about 40 totally innocent Tunisian civilians...

As long as Israel continues to be allowed to do what the **** it likes by the US, it will continue to commit atrocities such as last week! Obama, hang your head in shame...

[Kuciwalker]

By the way, does anyone here know how far outside Israeli waters the ship was stopped, at what time it was stopped, and roughly how long it would have taken the ship to be inside Israeli waters?

[Gibsie]

Just as many innocents would have died had Israel shot 9 people inside their territorial waters.

While I've already stated I don't think the issue of the boarding action happening in international waters is especially pertinent, I do think that if Israel had waited until they were in their own waters, at that point they would have been able to organise and perform a far more cogent assault that disabled the activists without the unfortunate loss of life, especially given that the "law" would have been on their side there, giving them a wider berth to do as they saw fit without having to worry so much about the international reaction.

Edit: it was closer to Cyprus than it was to Israel from the newsreports I read.
Double edit: for getting terms mixed up!

[dannubis]

Yesterday in Brussels there was a pro israeli demonstration.

The demonstrators deplored the fact that Israel was condemned as guilty before even an investigation had taken place (I can follow) and they hoped everyone would show restraint and sound judgement when looking at this case...

I mean, WTF ??? Restraint and sound judgement ??? I spilled my coffee and almost burned one of my balls of when I heard this.