Ships to Gaza incident

[Kuciwalker]

The material consequence here is you don't know for 100% certainty they would enter Israeli waters.

It could've been a ruse or a bluff.

I've been waiting for you to make this point; it's just pedantic and implausible enough to be classic Asher. Note that I even brought up this possibility already. All indications are that they weren't bluffing.

[Asher]

You can't convict someone of a crime because you believe they may commit it in the future. It doesn't matter what the indicators were.

It's not a pedantic point, it's a major point. And one that should be common sense.

Good on you for waiting for me to state the obvious, and good on you for missing the point.

[Kuciwalker]

You can't convict someone of a crime because you believe they may commit it in the future.

You really want to use this analogy? You can, in fact, arrest someone in order to prevent them from committing a crime. If I pulled out a gun, pointed it at you, and said "I'm going to kill Asher!" then a police officer would have every right to gun me down.

[Hauldren Collider]

Even if it turns out it was only a paintball gun!

[Dinner]

If they publicly announce they're going to do something illegal, like the flotilla did, and then you watch them get very close to doing what they said they'd do then, yes, a great case can be made.

[Asher]

You really want to use this analogy? You can, in fact, arrest someone in order to prevent them from committing a crime. If I pulled out a gun, pointed it at you, and said "I'm going to kill Asher!" then a police officer would have every right to gun me down.

Are you really going to be this stupid?

You can't charge someone with murder for saying they'll kill someone. That is a DIFFERENT crime with DIFFERENT punishments and DIFFERENT laws.

[Asher]

If they publicly announce they're going to do something illegal

What exactly was illegal?

It is not illegal to take a ship to Gaza. Israel is operating a blockade (which itself may or may not be illegal), but that doesn't make it illegal for ships to go to Gaza. Jesus, Oerdin.

[Kuciwalker]

Are you really going to be this stupid?

You can't charge someone with murder for saying they'll kill someone. That is a DIFFERENT crime with DIFFERENT punishments and DIFFERENT laws.

And Israel didn't charge them with any crimes, either. But if you really want to use this analogy, then Israeli is the cop stopping me from shooting you.

[Asher]

And Israel didn't charge them with any crimes, either.

Interesting how they sentenced 9 to death.



The point is, and you're increasingly trying to obfuscate it, this was in international waters and the ship didn't do anything illegal, nor did they enter Israel's water. You cannot board a ship and kill its people for doing something that's never been done.

[Kuciwalker]

That's a cute piece of rhetoric and I'm sure you're proud of it, but it's clearly a fallacy of equivocation within your silly analogy.

[Asher]

That's a cute piece of rhetoric and I'm sure you're proud of it, but it's clearly a fallacy of equivocation within your silly analogy.

You're seriously delusional now. You know you're backed into a corner when you escalate the vocabulary.

[Kuciwalker]

The point is, and you're increasingly trying to obfuscate it, this was in international waters. The fact that Israel got that the intention was the ship would enter port its territorial waters. The fact is, the ship never did. Israel should have waited until the ship was in their waters.

And then exactly the same thing would have happened, at a very slightly different longitude and latitude. As I said pages ago, if you genuinely think that's a moral issue you are a tool and an idiot.

[Asher]

And then exactly the same thing would have happened, at a very slightly different longitude and latitude. As I said pages ago, if you genuinely think that's a moral issue you are a tool and an idiot.

As I said many times now, the fact that you think the same thing would've happened is not the point. If Israel had waited a couple hours, the raid would've been done in the light of day. Bet you it would've happened MUCH different then.

Your assertion that the exact same thing would happen no matter when and where the ship was boarded is offensively stupid.

[Hauldren Collider]

uhh, what? Asher, it's true.

[KrazyHorse]

It's interesting to watch Asher out-pedanting Kuci.

K: your moral sense has become considerably more refined since I last remember.