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  • Nice. a ****ing ANIME derail ....

    anyway:



    5.1.2(3) Merchant ships flying the flag of a neutral State may be attacked if they are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search, capture or diversion.

    5.1.2(4) Merchant ships flying the flag of a neutral State may be attacked if they:
    (a) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;
    (c) are incorporated into or assist the enemy’s intelligence system;
    (e) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy’s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions.

    5.2.1 Visit and search
    As an exception to Principle 5.1.2. paragraph 1 and in accordance with Principle 1.3 (2nd sentence), belligerent warships have a right to visit and search vis-à-vis neutral commercial ships in order to ascertain the character and destination of their cargo. If a ship tries to evade this control or offers resistance, measures of coercion necessary to exercise this right are permissible. This includes the right to divert a ship where visit and search at the place where the ship is encountered are not practical.

    5.2.10 Blockade
    Blockade, i.e. the interdiction of all or certain maritime traffic coming from or going to a port or coast of a belligerent, is a legitimate method of naval warfare. In order to be valid, the blockade must be declared, notified to belligerent and neutral States, effective and applied impartially to ships of all States. A blockade may not bar access to neutral ports or coasts. Neutral vessels believed on reasonable and probable grounds to be breaching a blockade may be stopped and captured. If they, after prior warning, clearly resist capture, they may be attacked.



    This is kind of sad for me, because I read it only now, and I have thought that we weren't ok wrt international law. but it seems that we were. I am kind of confused, because I have no idea what the international community wants...
    urgh.NSFW

    Comment


    • WTF are those laws and how come no one has ever heard of them before? And how come they're not on wikipedia?

      I can only find them on weird, unofficial sites. Even then there's parts which indicate they should not have done this in neutral/international waters:
      Belligerents must respect the inviolability of neutral territory. In consequence, belligerents may not conduct
      hostilities in neutral territory and in neutral waters, except in individual or collective self-defence and subject
      to Principle 2.1.


      And yes, to me landing commandos on a ship at night constitutes hostilities.
      Last edited by Asher; June 6, 2010, 14:53.
      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

      Comment


      • This whole thing seems fishy.

        Israel and its defenders have cited like 3 or 4 different sets of international law that supposedly defend the actions, but all of them sound weird.
        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

        Comment


        • You always sound weird Asher, and yet we still listen to you.
          A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

          Comment


          • I haven't seen any coverage of the whole issue in international law in common sources, anyway.
            urgh.NSFW

            Comment


            • Best article on the situation

              "I read a book twice as fast as anybody else. First, I read the beginning, and then I read the ending, and then I start in the middle and read toward whatever end I like best." - Gracie Allen

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Prince Asher View Post
                WTF are those laws and how come no one has ever heard of them before? And how come they're not on wikipedia?

                I can only find them on weird, unofficial sites. Even then there's parts which indicate they should not have done this in neutral/international waters:
                Belligerents must respect the inviolability of neutral territory. In consequence, belligerents may not conduct
                hostilities in neutral territory and in neutral waters, except in individual or collective self-defence and subject
                to Principle 2.1.


                And yes, to me landing commandos on a ship at night constitutes hostilities.

                Someone who has access to Lexis can likely find it cited here.

                That also mentions San Remo (which was the subject of some controversy in this thread earlier).
                Last edited by notyoueither; June 6, 2010, 16:32.
                (\__/)
                (='.'=)
                (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

                Comment


                • It's also contained in the contents here
                  Laws of Armed Conflicts: A Collection of Conventions, Resolutions & Other Documents
                  eCampus.com allows you to search for textbooks by ISBN, title, author or subject. We offer textbook rentals, new and used textbooks and digital textbooks.

                  or

                  XIII. NEUTRALITY

                  Convention (V) respecting the Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers and Persons in Case of War on Land. Signed at The Hague, 18 October 1907
                  1399 (8)
                  Convention (XIII) concerning the Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers in Naval War. Signed at The Hague, 18 October 1907
                  1407 (10)
                  Convention on Maritime Neutrality. Signed at Havana, 20 February 1928
                  1417 (8)
                  Helsinki Principles on the Law of Maritime Neutrality. Adopted by the International Law Association at its Taipei Conference on 30 May 1998
                  1425 (6)
                  Index 1431
                  (\__/)
                  (='.'=)
                  (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

                  Comment


                  • So the "International Law Association" drafted these obscure laws.

                    WTF kind of authority do they have? They seem just like any other random organization.

                    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                    Comment


                    • Anyone who is upset at this because it's a violation of international law is a complete tool.

                      Comment


                      • We don't expect Americans to respect international law.
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                        Comment


                        • Asher, do you even understand the purpose of this particular law?

                          Comment


                          • Tool? Like a hammer?

                            If I had a hammer,
                            His name would be Kuciwalker,
                            And he would be a tool,
                            All over this land...

                            sing along!
                            "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                            "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                            Comment


                            • I'm not a lawyer, but everything I've ever read in military history leads me to believe that the Israelis were entirely within their rights as a blockading power to stop and search those ships in International waters as they approached Gaza.

                              Diverting the ships to Ashdod and forwarding humanitarian aid to Gaza is not precedented AFAIK, but not much of a stretch given conventions adopted at various points in the last 100 years. In the 'good old days' they'd just be turned back or seized/sunk, period.

                              In other news, Hamas is refusing to accept the goods forwarded to them. The attitudes of some of the passengers on the Love Boat and actions by Hamas tell me a lot regarding what this is all about. The Israelis did screw up the operation though.
                              (\__/)
                              (='.'=)
                              (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                              • Originally posted by Kuciwalker View Post
                                Asher, do you even understand the purpose of this particular law?
                                Which law?

                                I'm not even convinced the law Az brought up is actually a law, so much as a piece of paper some random organization wrote up.
                                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                                Comment

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