I see investment in Africa as great but The Guardian trashes it.

[Ecofarm]

The Neo-Exodus is not obligatory, it's voluntary. Please, spare me the "Mao's Volunteers". And it is already taking place in the form of NGOs, farming research and extension, Universities, farming systems research, volunteer organizations, expatriates, ethical businessmen and a multitude of other concerned people willing to take personal action and responsibility. We just need to make it a global movement on a much larger scale, one person at a time.

[Dinner]

That's nice and all but it won't create the massive change and massive increases in output and wealth which are needed to pull billions of people out of poverty. For that you're going to need lots of private investment.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Oerdin- do you really think you can produce US-equivalent levels of consumption across Africa? I don't.

Which means this talk of poverty is all relative. So how about improving the lot of the resident Africans by helping them support a growing population through pragmatic and sustainable local improvements that won't involve human rights abuses en route?

Sink some wells. Provide some agricultural training relevant to their local produce. Introduce them to other local farmers and point out the benefits of collectives, and the Fair Trade network. Give them some improved seed stock or a couple of good cows. Job done.

[Ben Kenobi]

by helping them support a growing population through pragmatic and sustainable local improvements that won't involve human rights abuses en route?

What do you mean by sustainable?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

What do you mean by sustainable?

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=What+does+%22sustainable%22+mean%3F

[Ben Kenobi]

Wow, that was informative.

It tells me that sustainability has no correlation with prosperity and may in fact be inversely related.

[Ecofarm]

Give them some improved seed stock or a couple of good cows. Job done.

I think "improving" the seed is foolish. The varieties relied upon are long term proven stock. Whether kale, maize, beans, yuca or other roots, greens, medicinals (human and livestock), feed, legume, etc... their production, requirements and nutrition profiles fit the necessary parameters. "Improved" seeds often involve intellectual property rights, monoculture, technology, irrigation, slope, pesticide, contractual and other problems that effect ethical considerations. Fundamentally, they represent a treadmill of dependance.

We should preserve the native food species, practices (eliciting quality considerations for food preparation and storage), diversity, integrity and resiliance of long evolved natural systems while improving efficiency, technological dissemination and culturally relative 'standards of living'. A "green revolution", as experienced in the western world, will not suffice. The technology of tomorrow's agriculture lies largely in our social, bio, eco and spiritually diverse heritage and the knowledge and understanding of our grandmothers (the ancestral caretakers of limited-resource sustenance).

It tells me that sustainability has no correlation with prosperity and may in fact be inversely related.

Ain't that a b1tich. I hate waking up too; I wish we were all born awake.

ps. define prosperity. Let me hear those Christian values echoing the Bells of Donne; let me see them working in our hearts of darkness... It could happen.




*bow*

[pchang]

As Civ players

we know that it is all about producing enough food so that
all the people in your cities do not have to be farmers

Step 1
build granary
Step 2
build market place

[Ben Kenobi]

ps. define prosperity. Let me hear those Christian values echoing the Bells of Donne. Let me see them working in our hearts of darkness.

There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.

His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.

And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.

And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

This is a mite different from:

a couple of good cows

[Ecofarm]

Step 1
Get a good start.
Step 2
Regenerate map, see step 1.

[Whoha]

build lots and lots of crawlers.

[BlackCat]

Now obviously if a dictatorial government is taking land away from its legal owners without compensation then that is wrong but the truth is Africa badly, badly, badly needs this kind of foreign investment to create jobs, to boost agricultural output, to gain new tax revenue, and to boost exports to help pay for all of their imports. According to The Guardian international investors are investing heavily into creating world class mega-farms in Africa mostly for the export trade. Personally, I see this as a very good thing because it takes under performing farm land and turns it into state of the art highly productive farm land, it creates tens of thousands of new jobs in a place which badly needs jobs, and it boosts exports as well as the world food supply. To the Guardian though it is nothing but neo-colonialism which is the boneheaded thinking which keeps so much of Africa poor.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...rica-land-grab

I'm not a big fan of guardian, but in this case they are spot on. What you suggest is simply cheap land and slavelike workers.

[BlackCat]

"Improved" seeds often involve intellectual property rights

No, while normally true, it isn't the case in africa. GMO's are raraely patented there.

[Ecofarm]

Africa does not "invent" any GMCs (perhaps Kenya got a sweet potato off the ground). The patents are held by western nations and everyone is subject to them. I don't know what makes you think Africa is exempt from international patent and intellectual property rights law. Go tell Monsanto/Pharmacia/etc that Africa does not need to heed their patent rights. While you are at it, fix the WTO and placate Vandana Shiva.


Full Disclosure: I cherish IPRs, they prevent contamination. If any of you can even slightly understand or begin to comprehend that conflict of ethics, please.. please... expand upon it.

[BlackCat]

Patents made in for example US isn't international - it only appiles in US. You have to do it in every country where you want to make your claim.