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  • Latest on "don't ask, don't tell"

    By ANNE FLAHERTY, Associated Press Writer Anne Flaherty, Associated Press Writer – 1 min ago

    WASHINGTON – It's time to repeal the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy and allow gay troops to serve openly for the first time in history, the nation's top defense officials declared Tuesday, with the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff proclaiming that service members should not be forced to "lie about who they are."

    However, both Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Joint Chiefs Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen asked for a year to study the impact before Congress would lift the controversial policy.

    Reversing the Pentagon's 17-year-old policy toward gays "comes down to integrity," for the military as an institution as well as the service members themselves, Mullen told a Senate hearing. Unpersuaded, several Republican senators said they would oppose any congressional effort to repeal the policy.

    Ten months before voters elect a new Congress, some Democratic leaders also were leery of trying to change the policy this year, when both sides concede Republicans are likely to pick up seats, especially after GOP Sen.-elect Scott Brown's surprise victory last month in Massachusetts.

    Repealing don't-ask-don't-tell is not a winning campaign strategy for a party under siege especially in the South and Midwest.

    "What do I want members to do in their districts? I want them to focus on jobs and fiscal responsibility," said House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., classifying gays in the military in a category of "a lot of other issues" that will invariably come up.

    "It's never a good year" for Democrats to bring up the controversial policy, said Senate Democratic Whip Dick Durbin of Illinois. "You can expect that it's going to be a rough ride."

    However, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said he didn't see why it should wait another year.

    The Pentagon announced an 11-month review of how the ban could be lifted, as President Barack Obama has said he will work to do. But there is no deadline for ending the policy that dates to President Bill Clinton's tenure and that gay rights advocates are pressing to overturn.

    In the meantime, Gates announced plans to loosen enforcement rules for the policy, which says, in essence, that gays may serve so long as they keep their sexuality private.

    Obama has called for repeal but has done little in his first year in office to advance that goal. If he succeeds, it would mark the biggest shake-up to military personnel policies since President Harry S. Truman's 1948 executive order integrating the services.

    Homosexuality has never been openly tolerated in the American military, and the 1993 policy was intended to be a compromise that let gay men and women serve so long as they stayed silent about their sexuality. Clinton had wanted to repeal the ban entirely, but the military and many in Congress argued that doing so would dangerously disrupt order.

    Repealing the ban would take an act of Congress, something that does not appear close to happening.

    Since 'don't ask, don't tell" was established, much has changed. Five states and the District of Columbia have adopted laws permitting marriage of gay couples, while nine other states have granted similar rights to gay domestic partners.

    The public's attitude toward gays and lesbians also has undergone a significant shift. A Pew poll last year indicated that 59 percent of Americans favor allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military, up from 52 percent in 1994.

    On Tuesday, several Democratic senators praised Mullen and Gates for what they said was courageous stance, but a number of Republicans spoke strongly against the idea of a repeal.

    Gates drew unusually pointed criticism from Republicans on the Senate Armed Services Committee for saying the review would examine how, not whether, to repeal the ban. Arizona Sen. John McCain, the top Republican on the panel, icily told Gates he was disappointed in his position and suggested the Pentagon was usurping Congress' job.

    "Has this policy been ideal? No, it has not," McCain said. "But it has been effective."

    Mullen looked pained when Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., suggested that the Joint Chiefs chairman had preordained the outcome of any study by signaling his own opposition to the ban.

    "This is about leadership, and I take that very, very seriously," Mullen replied, tightlipped.

    Tuesday's session gave Obama high-level cover on a divisive social issue complicated by the strains on an all-volunteer military force fighting two wars.

    Gates, who says he is a Republican, is the only member of former President George W. Bush's Cabinet whom Obama asked to stay on. He has gained a reputation for both candor and caution. Mullen's words were a forceful endorsement from a careful man, and his very appearance, starched uniform and four stars on view, made a statement as well.

    Gates said change was inevitable and called for a yearlong internal study into how it would occur.

    He told the senators he understood that any change in the law was up to them. But he made it clear he believes it is time to do away with the 1993 policy, and by implication the outright ban on gay service that preceded it. Alongside Mullen, that put the Pentagon's top leadership at odds with uniformed leaders a rung or two below, as well as with and also with senior members of Congress.

    "No matter how I look at the issue," Mullen said, "I cannot escape being troubled by the fact that we have in place a policy which forces young men and women to lie about who they are in order to defend their fellow citizens." Noting that he was speaking for himself and not for the other service chiefs, Mullen added: "For me, it comes down to integrity — theirs as individuals and ours as an institution."

    Gates has appointed a four-star Army general, Carter Ham, and his own chief legal counsel, Jeh Johnson, to conduct the assessment. He also has requested legal advice on how the military can relax enforcement standards of the current policy.

    McCain, the ranking Republican on the panel, bristled at the Pentagon decision to pursue the study, saying he was "deeply disappointed" and calling the assessment "clearly biased" in presuming the law should be changed.

    For their part, Democrats hailed the internal review but suggested they wouldn't wait too long. Sen. Carl Levin, the committee's chairman and a Michigan Democrat who has long opposed the ban, said he was considering legislation this year that would temporarily suspend dismissals of gays under the current policy until a full repeal could be passed.

    Democrat Mark Udall said his Colorado constituents pride themselves on allowing others to live and let live.

    "You don't have to be straight to shoot straight," said Udall, quoting longtime Arizona Republican Sen. Barry Goldwater.

    The tenor of the hearings could change significantly when lawmakers hear from other senior military officials. Each of the service chiefs is expected to testify this month on his 2011 budget, and Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Conway is said to have serious concerns about the upheaval that a change to "don't ask, don't tell" could cause.

    Rep. Ike Skelton, a conservative Democrat from Missouri who chairs the House Armed Services Committee, says he thinks it would be ill-advised to pursue such a major shake-up at a time when forces are consumed by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Mullen said it was his sense that rank-and-file troops would support the change.

    "I have served with homosexuals since 1968," Mullen said in response to questions from Republican Sen. Sessions. "There are a number of things cumulatively that get me to this position."

    Scott Duane Fair, a former Army helicopter flight engineer, voiced his strong objection to repeal in a comment posted on the Army's official Facebook page, saying straight service members shouldn't be forced to share sleeping quarters and showers with those who are openly gay.

    In a phone interview, 30-year-old Fair said he had a troubling experience as a young private when a higher-ranking soldier propositioned him in a California barracks room. Fair said he reported the incident to commanders, who took no action.

    "For somebody to go around flaunting their sexuality is going to make a lot of people more uncomfortable," said Fair, who left the Army in 2001 because of a disability.

    On the other hand, Jason Jonas, a 28-year-old former Army staff sergeant from Tempe, Ariz., said he knew of openly gay soldiers in his intelligence unit at Fort Bragg, but their lifestyle never affected unit morale.

    "I don't think it is anybody's right to say who can and who can't fight for their country," said Jonas, who served in Afghanistan before being hurt. He is no longer in the Army. "Nobody cares. Don't ask, don't tell is kind of a joke."

    As for the leaders of the study:

    • Ham is a former enlisted infantryman who rose through the ranks to eventually command troops in northern Iraq in 2004 and hold senior positions within the Joint Staff. Recently, he helped conduct an investigation into the shootings at Fort Hood in Texas.

    • Johnson, as the Pentagon's top legal counsel, has played an integral role into the effort to try to close the military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

    ___

    Associated Press writers Laurie Kellman in Washington, Kevin Maurer in Wilmington, N.C., and Russ Bynum in Savannah, Ga., contributed to this report.
    More Talk About Doing Something

    One thing I'd like to add, is that some time ago, I read about some of the negative repercussions of "don't ask, don't tell" that are keenly felt by gays and lesbians who are serving their country. IIRC, suicide rates for enlisted gays and lesbians are higher. They also do not have the same freedom to open themselves up to counselors and therapists who are supposedly available to all military persons. This means gays and lesbians are less likely to find effective, healthy ways to deal with the great amount of stress they experience in the service, and in recovering from any psychological trauma.

    Another thing about counseling service, from what I have read, is many straight enlisted members take it for granted that they can speak with a counselor about long-distance relationship issues that concern a partner or spouse of the opposite gender. Gays and lesbians are denied this valuable resource for emotional/psychological well-being while in the service.
    A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

  • #2
    More crap that Obama's trying to shove out before the '10 elections.

    Does he have a single policy that's popular?

    IIRC, suicide rates for enlisted gays and lesbians are higher
    Enlisted or not, this is true. Enlistment has zero effect on this.

    They also do not have the same freedom to open themselves up to counselors and therapists who are supposedly available to all military persons
    Oh bull****. That's what this is about so they can talk to their counsellors? There's confidentiality in their code of ethics.
    Last edited by Ben Kenobi; February 2, 2010, 22:57.
    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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    • #3
      Own goal.

      Repealing "don't ask, don't tell" is popular.
      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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      • #4
        There's no valid reason that gays - or women - shouldn't serve in the military, or in combat units. If gays or women cause a problem due to sexuality and such, then they should be subject to the same regulations and discipline that straight men are subject to.

        Excluding gays and women from the military ultimately only hurts the military. Bottom line.
        Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
        Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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        • #5
          Next they'll be letting Catholics and Muslims serve openly
          RoboCon v2.1.1

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          • #6
            Originally posted by David Floyd View Post
            There's no valid reason that gays - or women - shouldn't serve in the military, or in combat units. If gays or women cause a problem due to sexuality and such, then they should be subject to the same regulations and discipline that straight men are subject to.

            Excluding gays and women from the military ultimately only hurts the military. Bottom line.
            Who are you, and what you have done with DF?
            A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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            • #7
              I want MrFun to apologize for gays losing the next war for us.*




              *-Along with the j00s and wimmens and swarthy folk
              I'm consitently stupid- Japher
              I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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              • #8
                Umm, I don't recall ever opposing having gays or women in the military, at least not recently.

                Yes, I think gays are ridiculous, and women's lib is stupid, but that doesn't mean I think they shouldn't be allowed to serve.
                Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
                Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by David Floyd View Post
                  Yes, I think gays are ridiculous, and women's lib is stupid, but that doesn't mean I think they shouldn't be allowed to serve.
                  Right - no contradictions there.
                  A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MrFun View Post
                    Who are you, and what you have done with DF?

                    How is that the least bit surprising?
                    Unbelievable!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MrFun View Post
                      Right - no contradictions there.
                      David has always been the mad anarchist/libertarian- no surprise, really.
                      I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                      I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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                      • #12
                        Right - no contradictions there.
                        Sorry, but what contradiction?

                        I can't wrap my head around the concept that a guy would actually want to stick his penis in another guy. It's totally foreign and alien to me, not to mention disgusting. On the other hand, I'm not in favor of banning that practice, nor am I in favor of kicking gays out of the military.
                        Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
                        Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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                        • #13
                          Repealing "don't ask, don't tell" is popular.
                          Among Americans?
                          Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                          "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                          2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                          • #14
                            Shut up. No one cares what you think.
                            Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
                            Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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                            • #15
                              KMA.
                              Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                              "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                              2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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