advice

[Cort Haus]

Kuci, instead of apologising, just tell the stupid, whiny, self-victimising ***** to **** off for ever for trying to throw a guilt-trip on you and expecting you to apologise for her hysterical self-indulgence.

I almost threw up over the "my hands are shaking ... the tears streaming down my face" bollocks.

[Guynemer]

Yeah, don't misunderstand. I don't think any of us think you are in the wrong; not even close.

However, it is a fight that is neither winnable nor particularly worth winning. Cut your losses, and avoid the subject in the future.

[Wiglaf]

Kuci, instead of apologising, just tell the stupid, whiny, self-victimising ***** to **** off for ever for trying to throw a guilt-trip on you and expecting you to apologise for her hysterical self-indulgence.

I almost threw up over the "my hands are shaking ... the tears streaming down my face" bollocks.

Apologizing is such a waste. It just encourages further hysterics. Women like this need to be taught a lesson and I'm not just talking about driving lessons.

[Gibsie]

Here you go:
1) Insulting other cultures is bad.
2) Some cultures like insulting other cultures, but not meaning to be mean about it.
3) Therefore, as it is a cultural thing to mock other cultures, and you're not allowed to attack other cultures, if she agrees with (1) then it is not acceptable for her to get angry/upset about how other cultures do (2).
4) Realise that this is logical, and therefore she probably won't understand it, or even worse, she will get it, which will just make her even angrier.
5) Fail

[RGBVideo]

Given the fact that she's been in the US since she was 9 months old, doesn't she kinda loose the right to claim China as being her country?

No. It probably makes her more defensive, since the China she's defending in her mind is an idealized one that someone who actually grew up in China would never take seriously.

This is a great observation, and it's actually universal. Orwell had some insightful observations about this in his essays: The most eager and fanatical nationalists are actually uncertain about their own nationality and try to "prove" (not to others, but to themselves on a subconscious level) their loyalty and being part of their nation by overt and sometimes even funny (in a over-the-top way) patriotism.

Someone who hasn't lived in China in a long time runs away from the doubt whether she's "Chinese" anymore by regular outbursts of love for China. If it puts her into a minor conflict with someone, all the better, she can show herself that she's distinguished from non-Chinese with her open display of irrational jingoism.

edit: here's a quick google search, i think there's more to be found but can't be bothered

http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/nationalism.html

INSTABILITY The intensity with which they are held does not prevent nationalist loyalties from being transferable. To begin with, as I have pointed out already, they can be and often are fastened up on some foreign country. One quite commonly finds that great national leaders, or the founders of nationalist movements, do not even belong to the country they have glorified. Sometimes they are outright foreigners, or more often they come from peripheral areas where nationality is doubtful. Examples are Stalin, Hitler, Napoleon, de Valera, Disraeli, Poincare, Beaverbrook. The Pan-German movement was in part the creation of an Englishman, Houston Chamberlain. For the past fifty or a hundred years, transferred nationalism has been a common phenomenon among literary intellectuals. With Lafcadio Hearne the transference was to Japan, with Carlyle and many others of his time to Germany, and in our own age it is usually to Russia. But the peculiarly interesting fact is that re-transference is also possible. A country or other unit which has been worshipped for years may suddenly become detestable, ans some other object of affection may take its place with almost no interval. In the first version of H.G. Wells's Outline of History, and others of his writings about that time, one finds the United States praised almost as extravagantly as Russia is praised by Communists today: yet within a few years this uncritical admiration had turned into hostility. The bgoted Communist who changes in a space of weeks, or even days, into an equally bigoted Trotskyist is a common spectacle. In continental Europe Fascist movements were largely recruited from among Communists, and the opposite process may well happen within the next few years. What remains constant in the nationalist is his state of mind: the object of his feelings is changeable, and may be imaginary.

[RGBVideo]

This isn't about winning the argument, it's about getting along with her without being dishonest.

That's a pipe dream. You're going to have to be dishonest.

Most pragmatic approach to take. Apologize, avoid the subject in the future. She can be happy, having proven herself to be Chinese and thus slightly different from "you Americans".

[Ben Kenobi]

As for self-mocking I really believe that's a common comedy theme in all the Western world. All the English countries speak the same language and are a lot more exposed to each other's cultures than to others' so this might be hard to realize. And while I regret making this another post where I mostly speak about my own country (it's very handy to refer to for perspective on all cultural issues), here's an IKEA commercial that aired in Germany to help my point.

I'm not sure. Russians, incredibly touchy. French people, incredibly touchy. I don't know much about the others, as those are the two I've had the most contact with. Germans, I don't really think they like Downfall all that much, but I could be wrong here.

English people love, love, love self-mockery. I've not seen it elsewhere to such an extent. Now I could be wrong, and I don't mean to speak out of ignorance of cultures that I've not had much experience. I mean what is Monty Python but guys taking the piss outta themselves and Western Culture?

[DirtyMartini]

didn't read OP. too long.

Still, the gist seems to be "can't lie. that's bad".

Lying is not only just a helpful social skill, it is a necessary one.

"do I look fat in this?" "are you free to go to my mom and dad's house tomorrow?" "did you just jerk off?" these are all questions that require lies. I'd estimate about 30% of situations are easier if you just lie.

[Dauphin]

English people love, love, love self-mockery.

Self-deprecation.

"Let's face it, it's British, it's crap" is not jocking mockery. It's a statement of faith, a faith that non-Brits are not allowed to have when talking about Britain.

[Riesstiu IV]

The easiest solution would be to simply not befriend racially inferior people.

[MOBIUS]

Kuci, you had like about a billion warnings throughout that entire exchange that she was touchy over the issue and you ploughed on completely oblivious - way to go, that's some feat!

Basically, if you value her friendship, you need to suck it up and apologise to her. It doesn't matter whether you agree with her, in fact judging by your exchange you are basically too stubborn to agree with her POV. However you can still accept that POV, even if you don't agree with it, as it is a perfectly valid one. I think she just got sick of being belittled by a partonising Westerner, as that is, given her POV, the way you came across - and boy, you had plenty of warnings!

If you don't value her friendship, you can always just go and tell her to get ****ed. The beauty of the latter option is that, reading between the lines, you've virtually done that already.

[MRT144]

Chinks are xenophobic hypocrites. Tell her that.

[MOBIUS]

That would certainly work.

[Kuciwalker]

Follow-up: I didn't mention it before, but the whole issue was over 5 minutes later when she apologized for overreacting and we agreed not to talk about it.

It is a little depressing how seriously some of y'all take your misogyny.

[Asher]

Women are serious business.