Swiss vote on referendum to ban new minarets

[Heraclitus]

Afaik they have that granted in the constitution, but since they also can initiate popular votes about everything people could vote for such a ban. Now they wonder whether this collides with the content of their own constitution. The pro-ban side of course says it's not hindering freedom of religion cuz they didn't ask for banning Islam completely

I do wonder. Does freedom of religion also imply you have the right to build religious buildings in any way your religion demands? Also do mosques really need minarets in orthodox Islam or are they just traditional things like Church towers?

[Heraclitus]

Germany --> Murdered millions of people in cold blood.

Austria --> Kept large swathes of Eastern Europe under its boot for centuries. Gave us Adolph Hitler.

Switzerland --> Banned minarets.

I guess the Swiss are still the good Germans. Must be the French and Italian influence...

FTFY

[BeBMan]

I do wonder. Does freedom of religion also imply you have the right to build religious buildings in any way your religion demands? Also do mosques really need minarets in orthodox Islam or are they just traditional things like Church towers?

"Need" is hardly a category for anyone here, rather "want". On what grounds should group A define how group B has to build their places of worship when there's no harm done or no technical or constructional reason for any restriction? Stuff like this is usually seen critical when it happens in islamic countries vs. churches.

As it stands they single out one religion and impose general restrictions which they don't impose on others, without any real justification - that's a clear case of discrimination against this religion and does IMO hinder freedom of religion of those affected.

It also does not solve a single problem related maybe to a failed integration of muslims or even to radical islamism, plus in case of Switzerland they'll probably suffer economically from it (as one of the articles hinted). Doesn't really appear to be the brightest move IMO...

[Ben Kenobi]

Are Christians allowed to build churches and worship in public in Arab countries?

[BeBMan]

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't see how this is any different than erecting Chartres Cathedral in Mecca.

I daresay the authorities there would veto the construction.

[Heraclitus]

"Need" is hardly a category for anyone here, rather "want". On what grounds should group A define how group B has to build their places of worship when there's no harm done or no technical or constructional reason for any restriction? Stuff like this is usually seen critical when it happens in islamic countries vs. churches.

As it stands they single out one religion and impose general restrictions which they don't impose on others, without any real justification - that's a clear case of discrimination against this religion and does IMO hinder freedom of religion of those affected.

It also does not solve a single problem related maybe to a failed integration of muslims or even to radical islamism, plus in case of Switzerland they'll probably suffer economically from it (as one of the articles hinted). Doesn't really appear to be the brightest move IMO...

But isn't Israel just as bad in this regard since they prevent the Raelians from building their temple?

[Heraclitus]

I don't see how this is any different than erecting Chartres Cathedral in Mecca.

I daresay the authorities there would veto the construction.

I think he is at the idea that Saudia Arabia has freedom of religion.

[BeBMan]

I don't see how this is any different than erecting Chartres Cathedral in Mecca.

I daresay the authorities there would veto the construction.

And you seem to think it's ok???

[Heraclitus]

And you seem to think it's ok???

Well there are a many Christians in Saudi Arabia (third world labourers). Mecca might be a stretch but I don't see why its reasonable that they don't have a right to build a Chatedral in Saudi Arabia?


Edit: Oh I get it now. Ben seems to think its ok that they don't have that right in SA....

[Dauphin]

I don't see why its reasonable that they don't have a right to build a Chatedral in Saudi Arabia?

Cattedrale nel deserto.

[Ben Kenobi]

And you seem to think it's ok???

I think Muslims need to understand how religious tolerance works.

That means no suicide bombings, no honour killings, no forced marriages, no multiple marriages. No killing people just because they criticise Muhammed.

If they are willing to abide by western standards wrt to religious tolerance, than by all means. What I have seen is just the opposite. They want to impose Sharia rather than assimilate and abide by western notions.

So long as Muslims insist upon Sharia, and engage in honour killings, they should not be permitted to erect minarets.

If Muslims sincerely believed in freedom of religion, why do they not practice it in nations where they are in control?

[BeBMan]

As I see it, you either think it's something that should not happen, then such stuff done to churches elsewhere is as wrong as this done to mosques. As I hinted this is often voiced as criticism towards certain Islamic countries indeed, esp. by Christian authorities, so it's not really new.

Or one could think it's all fine, then Christians have nothing to complain about restrictions in Islamic countries.

[Ben Kenobi]

As I see it, you either think it's something that should not happen, then such stuff done to churches elsewhere is as wrong as this done to mosques.

Muslims have not been good neighbours so to speak. Tolerance is a two way street. They immigrate to the west, they have to assimilate to the way the west works, not the other way around.

Or one could think it's all fine, then Christians have nothing to complain about restrictions in Islamic countries.

Over there, you have Christian communities which predate Islam. Islam's response has been to tear down churches, prevent new ones from being built, killing prominent Christians in the community and generally oppressing anyon who is not Muslim.

Does it not say that the "measure you use, will be measured to you?"

The measure Islam uses is absolute conformity not religious plurality.

[BeBMan]

I don't care what predated what. And I don't care if someone comes with complaints about "absolute conformity" instead "religious plurality" and supports moves against plurality if it's about a religion he doesn't like