If you die and go to hell and somebody goes back in time and kills your parents before you were born

[loinburger]

Said the guy that has my name in his signature line. Which is against the rules.
So I did also just for fun.

Yes, because calling somebody a classy poster and linking to a thread as evidence is equivalent to calling somebody a liar, in need of medication (but obviously just penicillin!), and the most boring poster. Please go away. You had ample opportunity to demonstrate remorse for your shameless and malicious attacks on me of late but you missed the boat due in all likelihood to having no remorse whatsoever - instead you offered nothing but empty justifications for your indefensible actions.

Lori, I agree to stop posting in any thread started by rah. I would like rah to stop posting in any thread started by me. If either of us breaks this agreement then please ban the offending party for at least a week.

[MrFun]

Loin, you really should ease up on the alcohol when you're on Apolyton.

[Lorizael]

You're a Presbyterian Jew?

(No.)

No no no. It's not that God has chosen in advance who will go to Hell and who will not; it's just that Hell is outside of time, so whoever will - by their own choices - eventually get to Hell is currently in Hell for an eternity.

Of course, if Hell is outside of time it's reasonable to assume that God is outside of time. But even dispensing with that speculative nonsense, if God is omniscient then, even if he grants humans the freedom to choose Heaven or Hell by their own actions, he still knows what their eventual choices will be.

And if a human's choices are affected by the actions of non-free-willed agents (the Earth), then it is by God's consenting actions (either direct interference or ancient creation) that he allows those he knows will go to Hell to go to Hell. But that's just another way of expressing the problem of evil, which pretty much all religious folk have to reconcile in their own fashion.

Said the guy that has my name in his signature line. Which is against the rules.
So I did also just for fun.

Names in signatures are not against the rules (but you can request that yours be removed). Baiting posters after a mod has warned you to stop, however, is a no no. It's time for you to leave the thread.

[loinburger]

Loin, you really should ease up on the alcohol when you're on Apolyton.

This is not funny, no matter how many you add

[Boris Godunov]

And if a human's choices are affected by the actions of non-free-willed agents (the Earth), then it is by God's consenting actions (either direct interference or ancient creation) that he allows those he knows will go to Hell to go to Hell. But that's just another way of expressing the problem of evil, which pretty much all religious folk have to reconcile in their own fashion.

There's also the problem of infinite punishment for finite sin. I can't imagine any infractions that could be committed within an individual's lifetime that merit eternal torture.

[Ben Kenobi]

You misunderstand Boris.

Purgatory is for cleansing away your sins provided you are a believer.

Only unbelievers go to hell, which is simply, 'eternal separation' from God.

God gives us all a choice, to accept him or reject him. If we choose to reject him, then he gives us what we've chosen, an eternity without him.

[Riesstiu IV]

Ahaha, you actually believe purgatory and hell. What a ******.

[Lorizael]

I suggest you lay off the random personal attacks, Riesstiu.

[loinburger]

It strikes me as inconsistent to follow Church doctrine on things like purgatory (which isn't in the Bible) and to reject Church doctrine on things like equality in marriage (IIRC Ben said that if a priest told him that husband and wife were equal then he'd get a new priest).

[Riesstiu IV]

I suggest you lay off the random personal attacks, Riesstiu.

I assure you, my attacks are premeditated.

[Ben Kenobi]

It strikes me as inconsistent to follow Church doctrine on things like purgatory (which isn't in the Bible)

1. Purgatory is scriptural.

1 Corinthians 3:13-5

If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

Paul is very clear here, this is exactly what purgatory is, the cleansing of sins from believers in preparation for ascending into heaven.

and to reject Church doctrine on things like equality in marriage (IIRC Ben said that if a priest told him that husband and wife were equal then he'd get a new priest).

No, you misunderstood. Any priest who taught that men and women were equal in marriage and also taught that this is a teaching contradicted by scripture, these are the folks I would walk out on. I agree, men and women are equal, but I believe it is well attested in scripture.

[Skanky Burns]

I think you are all missing the bigger question. If someone went back in time and killed both of your parents to prevent you from being born, you obviously would not be born. In this new timeline though, how would that future person know they had to go back in time to (continue to) prevent you from being born?

[loinburger]

It would just form an oscillating discontinuity in the multiverse.

[Boris Godunov]

You misunderstand Boris.

No, you just think your view of Hell is the only one because you're a self-centered jackass.

[Kitschum]

But if they never bore me are they really my parents...? Besides if we imagine souls are finite in number and immortal I guess my soul would just be inserted in another embryo (as we all well know embryos' have souls, QED).