Is the Catholic church a force for good in the world?

[Drake Tungsten]

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

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**** John Lennon.

[Lorizael]

Eugenics is selective breeding of humans.

Yes, I'm aware that oaks are trees.

I don't think you actually understand what eugenics means, Lori.

I think it's possible to speak of eugenics as a historical social movement and as a purely descriptive term. There are many today who espouse ideas that could largely be classified as "eugenics," but most don't use the word because they don't want to be associated with the movement.

He started it...

As far as an objective ass goes, I don't think I can continue this conversation with you. I'm not sure that you have any understanding of what the word objective means.

[Heraclitus]

Wouldn't it be great if we had a society where there was no private property, everything was owned collectively, and thus there was no poverty? Except we tried it and it DOESN'T ****ING WORK. Ditto eugenics. There won't be any earthly paradise so long as people are people, and if people become what people are crazy enough to think people ought to be it'll only aggravate the situation, because you have lunatics running their own asylum.

I never said it would be paradise.


Smart, beautifull, productive people would simply mean the country would have an advantage compared to other countries. I think such a society would probably result in a difference in living standards from the modern West comparable to the difference between Kazahstan and Sweden.

[Boris Godunov]

Forbidding certain people reproduction is too harsh and too prone to abuse.
I think the goverment should just offer them money not to do so.

I could swear I've seen that idea proposed here on Apolyton by another poster recently.

Who was it, who was it, who was it... hmmmm. The letters DF are coming to mind for some reason...

[Drake Tungsten]

Hating people like DF and Heraclitus is the one thing that can bring Boris and I together.

[Ming]

As far as an objective ass goes, I don't think I can continue this conversation with you. I'm not sure that you have any understanding of what the word objective means.

You obviously don't understant the term objective...

And don't whine when people attack others when they act like asses. You guys permit it. The OTF is such a mindfield now of personal attacks, that most of the people that did like civil discussion have left. The majority of remaining posters now just have fun insulting people they disagree with. There is very little serious discussion left... Nothing wrong with that... whatever turns people on... People create threads, and people respond to them in a manner that entertains them. But that's the way it is now.

[Boris Godunov]

I don't hate anyone, Drake. Not even you.

[Heraclitus]

I could swear I've seen that idea proposed here on Apolyton by another poster recently.

Who was it, who was it, who was it... hmmmm. The letters DF are coming to mind for some reason...

Can I just ask what is so evil about giving someone money not to breed?
They are free to reject it, and over here in Europe with universal healthcare and a generous welfare state, its hard to imagine someone wanting kids but taking the money because he needs it so desperatley.

[Heraclitus]

Hating people like DF and Heraclitus is the one thing that can bring Boris and I together.

Again, what is so evil about paying people not to breed?

Hard line environmentalists over here have proposed basically the same thing just with a different justification and making it an option open for everyone.

[Drake Tungsten]

I don't hate anyone, Drake. Not even you.

I hate everyone.

[Heraclitus]

Heck at the end of the day, paying people not to breed is not the only way to go about it... in any case in a few decades designer babies will be available (the legal status of such practices will be practically irelevant since people will want their kids to do better than they did)

That may be a superior soultion: let the market decide what future humanity will be like!

[Heraclitus]

DP

[Lorizael]

You obviously don't understant the term objective...

Oy vey. If something is objectively true, then it is true regardless of the perspective being used to examine it. Saying that "aneeshm is an ass" could only be objectively true if there were a definition of "ass" that was independent of human perception. Being as how an ass is a poorly defined insult amongst English-speaking humans that has changed meaning and usage over the course of its existence, it is literally meaningless to say that someone is "objectively" an ass. It makes no sense as a statement.

[Ben Kenobi]

Actually, the scenario was that you disagreed fiercely, not that you were of like minds. Or are you saying that you could only fall in love with someone if they also had the exact same thoughts on where to live and what house to buy?

You misunderstand. Closer to the truth would be that I'm not all that picky about the wheres, (I'd have no problem relocating, looking for work etc), as I am about the whos. Someone that I love and trust, I would want to be with them, even if we had to move and go somewhere else.

Maybe you're extremely poor and can't afford private school. You just got married, she's paying off college debt, that sort of thing. But, oops, you have a kid and he needs to go to school.

Mine's paid, and I'd give up other things to put kiddo through private school.

[Lorizael]

So what you're saying is that, even if your wife were a better decision-maker than you are, you'd only let her decide issues you're equally qualified to decide if it weren't important to you.

For important issues (such as private school and church), you would ultimately make the decisions, but for unimportant decisions (such as where you're living), you'd let her decide.

Answer me this, then: Is there any decision that is important to you that, if the two of you were equally qualified to make the decision but she was a better overall decision-maker, you would still let her make the final decision?