The Power of Prayer?

[Ben Kenobi]

I admit that I wish that praying for the dead did something. It is a bit upsetting that I can do nothing, that my dad's life is finished.

(No, am not saying that I beleive he won't be in heaven. It is just that I don't know.)

Yeah I know how you feel. I don't know where mine is either. How old was your dad, JM?

[Ben Kenobi]

My grandmother is in the hospital currently, and that has been the main response from people. My point is, why? What good does it do? Demonstrably none, given that if God exists and requires prayer in order to do "good things", then he's at the very least egotistical and it just goes from there, or if God doesn't exist, why prayer.

Prayer is just talking to God. No, he doesn't require prayer in order for good things to happen, and even if you pray for something, as you've said he has his plan.

But there are examples in the bible where prayer does have an effect. One is where Lot asks them to spare Sodom and Gomorrah if he can find so many righteous people living in the city. "Haggling with God" if you will.

I take that view, that God has his own plan, but you can haggle with him through prayer.

[Wezil]

Damn you Elok!!

[Elok]

Mwahaha!

Seriously, my understanding, which may or may not be the Orthodox understanding (I think so, but I've never been to seminary), is that prayer is the act of in some way uniting one's will to God's. As pain and death are the consequences of man's sin (turning away from God), the reasoning goes, a conscious will to goodness can counteract the Fall to some extent. Which is not to say that prayer is magic, only that God lets us make our own choices. We chose to defy God, separate ourselves from Him, and death and ruin were the natural consequences. The opposite is true as well, or something, though God may elect to allow the pain to continue if He feels it will be better in the long run. But I'm not sure; we let things stay "fuzzy" in my church rather than risk getting it wrong by trying to split hairs.

[Straybow]

[Q=Ben Kenobi;5702067]Prayer is just talking to God. No, he doesn't require prayer in order for good things to happen, and even if you pray for something, as you've said he has his plan. [/Q] I don't think so. Jesus says otherwise; most people who are "praying" aren't talking to God at all and God takes no heed to what they say.

[David Floyd]

"Haggling with God"?

So, if a loved one is about to die, and I "haggle with God" to keep that person alive, that's a good thing? If God has the power to save people from death, and has an existing plan for life and death, and is only willing to alter that plan if I pray/kowtow to him, what does that say about God?

[Elok]

I think you're failing to grasp the complexities of if/then-type statements involving the decisions of an extratemporal being. There's a reason most Christians aren't Calvinists, you know.

[Wernazuma III]

An omnipotent being who lets others bargain with him. God really has some wicked humor.

[rah]

But there are examples in the bible where prayer does have an effect.

Rock solid evidence.

[Imran Siddiqui]

To be fair to Ben, I think he was saying that to explain the Christian mindset towards prayer. Ie, prayer has been shown to have an effect in the Bible, so therefore Christians believe it may have an effect if they do so.

[dannubis]

An omnipotent being who lets others bargain with him. God really has some wicked humor.

Hey, what else would you do with an eternity right ?