Teen sex and other interesting subjects (from the pro-lifer murdered thread)

[Lorizael]

(Original thread.)

Okay Ben, here it is. I'm going to give this one more try before returning to the safe confines of my boring office work.

My claim: Since the late 1980s and early 1990s, sex education in the United States has changed to include safe sex programs in response to the AIDS epidemic. The result of the push for safe sex has been a decrease in the percentage of teenagers who are sexually active, a decrease in the percentage of teenagers who are pregnant, a decrease in the percentage of sexually active teenagers with STDs, an increase in the percentage of sexually active teenagers who use contraceptives such as condoms and birth control, and an increase in the percentage of pregnant teenagers who receive abortions.

Premise A: Condoms and other forms of birth control are generally effective and have contributed to the decrease in the percentage of teenagers who are pregnant or, for condoms alone, have STDs. (Read this study by the American Academy of Pediatrics, using data from the CDC. This study shows the decrease in STDs among adolescents.)

Premise B: Both abstinence-only sex education programs and comprehensive sex education programs reduce the percentage of teenagers who are sexually active, but only comprehensive sex education programs increase the use of condoms, other forms of birth control, and abortions amongst sexually active teenagers. (This study, along with the above study shows that condom usage has gone up in the past two decades.)

Premise C: States that employ abstinence-only programs show a decrease in the percentage of sexually active teenagers, a decrease in the percentage of pregnant teenagers who receive abortions, and an increase in the percentage of sexually active teenagers who are pregnant or have STDs. (This study , which loin posted and you agreed with, gives the statistics for pregnancies and abortions by state, whereas this study shows which states have abstinence-only programs, and this study shows that states in the South, which are usually abstinence-only states, have higher rates of STDs. The data correlates very well.)

Premise D: States with comprehensive sex education plans show a decrease in the percentage of sexually active teenagers (but not as great a decrease as those states with abstinence-only programs), a decrease in the percentage of sexually active teenagers who are pregnant, a decrease in the percentage of sexually active teenagers who have STDs, and an increase in the percentage of pregnant teenagers who receive abortions. (All of the above studies demonstrate this.)

Premise E: States with comprehensive sex education programs show a decrease in the percentage of sexually active teenagers who are pregnant or have STDs beyond that which can be attributed to the decrease in the percentage of teenagers who are sexually active. (Teen pregnancy rates have dropped by ~35% since the early 90s whereas sexual activity has only decreased by ~12% as shown in this study.

Premise F: Factors outside of sex education that reduce the percentage of teenagers who are sexually active cannot account for the increase in the percentage of sexually active teenagers who use condoms or other forms of birth control. (This is self-evident.)

There's more evidence. More data. More charts. If this doesn't convince you, I don't know what will.

Now, I don't actually expect this to convince you of anything, but I'd like to offer this: Given that there is a paucity of data to indicate that abstinence-only programs have been effective, and given that your religious inclinations would lead you to believe the religious option is the more effective one, would you please acknowledge that the data does not support your position and that you rely on faith when it comes to sex education?

[Ben Kenobi]

Now, I don't actually expect this to convince you of anything, but I'd like to offer this: Given that there is a paucity of data to indicate that abstinence-only programs have been effective,

I supplied a quite well supported and attested study that showed several things.

1. Abstinence only education is effective in delaying the age of first sexual contact (quite significantly so), and in reducing the average number of lifetime partners (from about 6) to about 3. The consequences of these are manifold, including reductions in STDs, likelihood of pregnancy, etc. I would argue that at least half of the reduction has been through the use of more effective abstinence-only programs introduced.

What the study also found is that pledgers were very sensitive to the overall family structure. If they were with their mom and dad, they were much less likely to go on and do their own thing vs all other alternatives. That was the single largest predicate for whether someone would keep a pledge.

[Ben Kenobi]

Source number 1:

Data from a series of studies demonstrated that sexual intercourse among 15- to 19-year-old adolescent females living in metropolitan areas increased significantly in the 1970s, from 37% reporting being sexually active in 1971, to 43% in 1976, to 50% in 1979. Smaller changes took place during the 1980s, with a series of national studies demonstrating an increase in the number of 15- to 19-year-old adolescent females who were sexually active, from 47% in 1982% to 53% in 1988.4 Rates decreased slightly in the 1990s, with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reporting in its Youth Risk Behavior Surveys that 50% of females in grades 9 through 12 were sexually active in 1991, with an increase to 52% in 1995 and a decrease to 48% in 1999

Since the advent of sex-ed programs, we have seen a decline in the sex rates from 50 percent to 48 percent. This is astounding evidence that sex-ed programs are useless in delaying or decreasing teenage sexual activity.

Rates of STD acquisition by adolescents also remain high, and the Institute of Medicine recently recommended that "a major part of a national strategy to prevent STDs should focus on adolescents."15 The CDC estimates that approximately 3 million adolescents acquire an STD each year, representing 25% of all new STD cases annually, and that two thirds of all individuals who acquire STDs are younger than 25 years.15 Data from published studies indicate that up to 30% of sexually active adolescent females test positive for infection with Chlamydia organisms; as many as 30% to 50% of sexually active adolescents have been infected with the human papillomavirus; sexually active adolescents between 15 and 19 years old have higher rates of gonorrhea than any other age group; rates of genital herpes infections are estimated to have increased more than 50%; and up to 25% of newly acquired HIV infections are estimated to occur among those who are 22 years or younger

So 30 percent clap rates even with sex-ed is a success? These are disastrous numbers.

Despite noted improvements in condom use, significant problems still remain. Condom use by one half to two thirds of adolescents is not sufficient to significantly decrease rates of unintended pregnancy and acquisition of STDs.

An admission of failure. That's source 1.

[Ben Kenobi]

Source number 2 conveniently omits Clamydia, HPV and Herpes.

These counts do not include incurable STDs such as genital herpes and human papillomavirus infection, for which no up-to-date estimates have been made by the WHO. Approximately 74,000 new HIV infections are estimated to have occurred in 1997 in North America and western Europe.2

Information is scarce on trends in Europe and North America for chlamydia (defined here as including only genital chlamydial infection), genital herpes and human papillomavirus infection, and when information is available it covers only the 1990s

[Ben Kenobi]

but only comprehensive sex education programs increase the use of condoms, other forms of birth control, and abortions amongst sexually active teenagers

I wholeheartedly agree with Premise 2. Sex ed programs increase the rate of abortion among teens. I don't consider this beneficial, I consider this a wholehearted negative of the program. I'm not going to contest the source. Yes, condom rates and abortions go up, hand in hand together.

[Ben Kenobi]

States that employ abstinence-only programs show a decrease in the percentage of sexually active teenagers, a decrease in the percentage of pregnant teenagers who receive abortions, and an increase in the percentage of sexually active teenagers who are pregnant or have STDs

Agree with parts 1 and 2. I dispute parts 3 and 4.

Study 5:

This region has consistently had higher reported rates of chlamydia, gonorrhea and primary and secondary (P&S) syphilis than the other regions of the country (Northeast, Midwest, and West). The reasons for these higher rates in the South are not well understood, but may include differences in the racial and ethnic distribution of the population, poverty, and availability and quality of health care services.

If we look at the county by county data, it paints a much different figure. Do note, that these are the figures for everyone, not just teenagers, and so your data here is useless in evaluating the question at hand.

[Ben Kenobi]

sexual activity has only decreased by ~12%

Your own source confirms that sexual activity has actually increased in the beginning of the 90s, and decreased to the end. When compared with the situation prior to sex-ed, it is much higher.

[chequita guevara]

The study would have been better if it was Finger, Tingle, and Mohn.

[chequita guevara]

Lori, why are you trying? Ben's a hater and a ferrus cranus. There's no point in engaging with him.

[Felch]

If you really want to keep people from getting laid, buy them a WoW subscriptions.

[Asher]

I only wish more Christians practiced perpetual abstinence as Ben does.

[Arrian]

The trouble with Ben's preferred solution (which he conceded in the last thread, but never really owned up to) is that it requires, by his own admission, that people be regular church-going believers. All the people. Those who aren't, but are subjected to "abstinence only" sex ed, are pretty much screwed. Hah, see what I did there?.

Talk about the cure being worse than the disease!

-Arrian

[Ben Kenobi]

The trouble with Ben's preferred solution (which he conceded in the last thread, but never really owned up to) is that it requires, by his own admission, that people be regular church-going believers.

If you want the kid to wait until marriage, yes it is significantly more effective with folks who are church-goers.

However, in terms of reducing sexual activity, delaying sexual activity, reducing the number of partners, it's effective regardless of your economic or social background. Did you not read my post up in the thread?

[Ben Kenobi]

I only wish more Christians practiced perpetual abstinence as Ben does.

Will you pledge to commit seppuku when I get married?

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben's a hater and a ferrus cranus

Hmm, you are a good idealogue.

I'd say I'm more of a tireless rebutter.