Brilliant woman solves california's problems

[Ben Kenobi]

Second sentence seems to dramatically contradict the first. He wasn't well liked.... and the election was a toss up. Unless you want to say Dubya wasn't well liked either, which is kinda silly.

So you are admitting that Dubya was well liked, which is why he won the election?

[Ben Kenobi]

Considering that Bush 1 and Dole had far less of the vote than Dubya, and exit polling numbers shows that Perot voters were evenly split in their 2nd choice for Clinton and Bush or Dole, I don't think Dem voting staying at 48% means much while Rep voting from went from 42% to 45% to 51%.

So you are suggesting that Dubya and Gore took equal measures of Perot voters, and Democrats shifted over to Bush?

Or are you one of those poor delusional folks who think Perot took 100% of the vote from Republicans even though he was wildly popular with unions?

It fits for Tennessee. Bush = Dole + Perot.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So you are admitting that Dubya was well liked, which is why he won the election?

I'd say Gore was pretty well liked himself.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'd say Gore was pretty well liked himself.

Then logically, so was Bush.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So you are suggesting that Dubya and Gore took equal measures of Perot voters, and Democrats shifted over to Bush?

Reading is crucial. I'm saying that Perot voters shifted back to where they would have been otherwise (half Rep, half Dem), but demographic changes led to greater Rep voters, which had been in the works since the early to mid 90s, as witnessed by the Senators changing from 2 Dems to 2 Reps and a gradual increase in Rep voters for Dole in 1996 than Bush in 1992, even with Perot on the ballot.

It fits for Tennessee. Bush = Dole + Perot.

Only if you are an idiot that can only do simple math and not see the patterns.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Then logically, so was Bush.

What exactly are you trying to get at? Are you attempting to knock down some sort of strawman?

[chequita guevara]

Hmm maybe if you were smarter, you wouldn't play up on that aspect. Having met you IRL, you do come off as a likable guy.

Did you run on the communist ticket?

I wasn't on any ticket, I was a write-in. I hope, this time around, to get on the ballot on the Socialist Party ticket. I'm running against Debbie Wasserman Schultz, number 4 Democrat in the House. Anyone wanna help me take some votes from her left?

In any event, the point in running, for me, is not to actually get elected. It's to spread the "Good News" of socialism. If I actually won I think I'd have to demand a recount, cuz it would be obvious something went wrong.

As for Ben and Dis, the State of Florida admitted in court it ****ed up the 2000 election, and has since taken steps to "insure" that they don't do it again, without admitting wrong doing. It's no conspiracy theory to point out that 50,000 eligible Democratic leaning voters were knocked off the rolls before the 20,000 election, or to note that in Republican dominated counties like Duval, Democratic leaning districts had voting machines that didn't work, while in the GOP districts, they worked. That's almost 80,000 votes right there.

We can't actually know how those people who were illegally prevented from voting would have voted. Perhaps Black people in Duval County really liked Bush and weren't able to express it. We'll never know, because we do know that the county, which was responsible for the voting machines, and was dominated by the GOP, at the very least, didn't bother to make sure that the voting machines in the Black precincts worked, while no major problems were reported with the machines in GOP precincts.

We *do* know that at least 50,000 additional Black people in the State of Florida were illegally labeled as felons and prevented from voting, and that no one has ever been held to account for that crime. As many as 90,000 people total may have been wrongfully excluded from voting.

Demographically, all things being equal, if those people had been allowed to vote, Gore would have won.

Yes, I'm still harping on it eight years later. I'm a small "d" democrat. When an election is stolen, that's a reason for concern for all those who love democracy. A crime occurred and no one has been held accountable for it. If the Democrats blatantly stole an election like that, I think the GOP would still be howling about it. And they'd be right to do so. Hell, they still ***** about the election of 1960, even though the evidence on that is sketchy. That was fifty years ago.

So yeah, I'm gonna bring it up like a ****ing broken record. Democracy isn't a matter of convenience for me. It's ****ing principle.

[Ben Kenobi]

Reading is crucial. I'm saying that Perot voters shifted back to where they would have been otherwise (half Rep, half Dem), but demographic changes led to greater Rep voters

If you do that, this means that out of all the new voters in 2000, only 10 percent of them voted democrat.

Lets look again at those senate races.

Thompson won 61/36 in 1996, and Frist won 65/32 in 2000.

Gore in 1990 won 68/30, but with only 20 percent of the voting population.

In the 2000 election, they had a turnout of over 45 percent, and Gore lost.

I don't think it's demographics, just turnout. Higher turnout in Tennessee, makes them far more likely to vote Republican.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Because Tennessee is a magical world. While in the rest of the country higher turnout means more likely to vote Democratic, in Tennessee it means more likely to vote Republican because Ben wants it to be such.

Let's just ignore the march from a solid Democratic state to a solid Republican state from 1990 to 2000.

[Ben Kenobi]

Because Tennessee is a magical world.

Tennessee voted for Frist AND Thompson. Tennessee is a magical world.

While in the rest of the country higher turnout means more likely to vote Democratic, in Tennessee it means more likely to vote Republican because Ben wants it to be such.

It's the truth. Gore had 20 percent turnout in 1990, the last time a senator went democrat in the state. Frist had 40 on an off year, FDT had 40 and Bush had 40.

That to me suggests the turnout effect is far greater then any demographic shift. If you don't believe me look it up.

20 percent turnout for Gore in 1990, half that of any other year.

Let's just ignore the march from a solid Democratic state to a solid Republican state from 1990 to 2000.

Excepting the fact that this 'solid republican state' went for Clinton twice and 0 times for homeboy Gore, and the last time homeboy Gore won anything in the state, they had 20 percent turnout, which is pathetic.

I'm even more convinced now that Gore just sucked as an elected representative.

[chequita guevara]

Honestly, no one cares what you think about America, Ben. You're just as clueless about us as you are about everything else.

[Ben Kenobi]

Honestly, no one cares what you think about America, Ben. You're just as clueless about us as you are about everything else.

I'm sorry Che, I find it hard to believe that 90 percent of new voters in any one state went either republican or democrat in the intervening 4 years before presidential elections. 65-70 percent, sure. 90? No way in hell.

The simplest theory is the correct one. 1996 Perot voters in Tennessee switched to Bush in 2000, giving him a victory over Gore in his home state.

[Wezil]

Poly's own demented version of the Energizer Bunny.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm sure voter turnout in 1982 also explains that Gore was hated . That and in 1990, he became the first Senate candidate to win EVERY single county in the state of Tennessee... but that must be because they didn't like him and not because they thought he'd run away with it

[chequita guevara]

Honestly, no one cares what you think about America, Ben. You're just as clueless about us as you are about everything else.

Repeated because Ben didn't understand the first time.