Proof that Obama is a terrorist supporter

[Arrian]

Ozzy

It was of course "just a speech." Sure. If he doesn't accomplish anything concrete in the next couple of years, then the speech ends up meaning nothing. Actions > Words.

This was PR. What amuses me about the right wingers here and elsewhere who had a knee-jerk negative response to this speech is that from my perspective it's almost as if they don't want the US to have good international PR.

I also note that the people who are most upset by this speech are the nuttiest folks in each country. The nuttier they are, the more the speech pisses them off. The hard right in the US, the hardcore Islamists and the most militant right-wing Israelis. Hmm, what do they have in common?

-Arrian

p.s. The stuff he said was actually really basic sensible stuff. He's trying to define the sensible center and leave the fringe wingers everywhere out in the cold. We'll see how that goes.

[Ben Kenobi]

This was PR. What amuses me about the right wingers here and elsewhere who had a knee-jerk negative response to this speech is that from my perspective it's almost as if they don't want the US to have good international PR.

Good international PR?

What exactly is good? Good for everybody else?

[DinoDoc]

This was PR.

PR is irrelevent unless it leads to concrete actions on the State level. My question is, what has the PR blitz (or apology tour) in Europe led to in the area of Afghanistan or any other area where the Euros have witheld cooperation?

[Ben Kenobi]

Lecturing, condemning and moralizing, especially when you have plenty of skeletons in your own closet doesn't work. Never has, never will. You can't expect someone will like you and listen to you if you go in with the attitude of "you are backwards and wrong, and an evil doer. You better do exactly what I tell you to do."

It worked with Meiji Japan. Gunboat diplomacy had a huge effect on their insular society.

Are you suggesting it would have been better had the Americans not intervened to open them up under Admiral Perry?

[BeBMan]

PR is irrelevent unless it leads to concrete actions on the State level.

Terrorism is hardly a state-level problem mainly (re-Cairo speech).

[DinoDoc]

Terrorism is hardly a state-level problem mainly (re-Cairo speech).

If we are going to restrict this to the Muslim Countries, how are Iranian and Syrian support of Hamas and Hezbolah in both arms and funding not State level issues? How was Pakistan's reluctance to attack AQ safe havens in thier contry not a State level problem for the US until the Taliban finally pushed the Pakistan military too far?

Furthermore, what's the benefit of highlighting problems with the US vs the instances the US has come to the aid of Muslim peoples all over the planet both militarially and through aid programs?

[Elok]

It worked with Meiji Japan. Gunboat diplomacy had a huge effect on their insular society.

Are you suggesting it would have been better had the Americans not intervened to open them up under Admiral Perry?

Yeah, you just say that because you've got a thing for Futanari. Like that Coulter "broad."

[BeBMan]

If we are going to restrict this to the Muslim Countries, how are Iranian and Syrian support of Hamas and Hezbolah in both arms and funding not State level issues? How was Pakistan's reluctance to attack AQ safe havens in thier contry not a State level problem for the US until the Taliban finally pushed the Pakistan military too far?

These are state level issues obviously, but that doesn't mean that those are the only issues re terrorism. Certainly they were not what I had in mind. You can bring lots of other actors in to fight terror militarily, but as long there's enough support (below the state-level) for the goals of terrorist orgs it seems difficult to stop terror that way. And support for those does have much to do with how the US or the "West" in general is perceived as the big satan or somesuch (if that belief has anything to do with reality doesn't matter much if enough people act according to it).

Furthermore, what's the benefit of highlighting problems with the US vs the instances the US has come to the aid of Muslim peoples all over the planet both militarially and through aid programs?

Speaking out about probs is the usual way to discuss them and subsequently find solutions for them, me thinks, but I may be a bit naive

[DinoDoc]

These are state level issues obviously, but that doesn't mean that those are the only issues re terrorism.

I couldn't possibly care less how much "teh peoples" support an organization deemed to be terrorist. They only become dangerous to the international system when given the tacit support of State level actors.

Speaking out about probs is the usual way to discuss them and subsequently find solutions for them, me thinks, but I may be a bit naive

I thought the point of this exercise was to engage in a bit of good PR building, not to have a Dr. Phil/Oprah moment.

[BeBMan]

I couldn't possibly care less how much "teh peoples" support an organization deemed to be terrorist. They only become dangerous to the international system when given the tacit support of State level actors.

That's quite a statement. Had the guys blowing up stuff in London or Madrid concrete state-level support? Sure, it didn't bring down the international system immediately. Still it obviously poses a problem when people go around blowing up stuff in our cities I think.

[DinoDoc]

That's quite a statement.

Did the German government try and understand the feelings of the Red Army Faction or did they simply seek to arrest them?

Had the guys blowing up stuff in London or Madrid concrete state-level support?

How many people die daily in traffic accidents?

[BeBMan]

Did the German government try and understand the feelings of the Red Army Faction or did they simply seek to arrest them?

Nobody asks for letting terrorists go. And I don't think Obama did. Still the level of support for terror *has* to be a concern - and the RAF failed precisely because it remained isolated and didn't have the backing of the population.

How many people die daily in traffic accidents?

Don't know, don't care - traffic accidents don't pose a prob to life in a civil society comparable to blowing up stuff and people to get your political will through IMO.

[Heraclitus]

It worked with Meiji Japan. Gunboat diplomacy had a huge effect on their insular society.

Are you suggesting it would have been better had the Americans not intervened to open them up under Admiral Perry?

You do realize that the intervention set them on a course of imperialism and conquest eventually leading them to attack the United States of America?

[Elok]

You've been corrupted by Modernist historians, Hera. The origins of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere can be readily traced to the loss of funding for Catholic missions in Japan.

[Ramo]

I couldn't possibly care less how much "teh peoples" support an organization deemed to be terrorist.