Proof that Obama is a terrorist supporter

[DinoDoc]

More seriously though, can anyone here point to any substantive fruit borne out of the Apology tour both in Europe or in the ME?

[Darius871]

Wow, another "speech"...

[MrFun]

I'll bite. I only skimmed the speech, but I think the part where he talked about woman's rights was an example of how it was kind of weak:



He starts off raising the issue, saying there's a healthy debate, and considers that education is the key to equality. I'm not sure that alone is the solution, but fine. Then he goes on to almost praise states like Pakistan and Bangladesh while offering criticism of America. That strikes me as a foolish way of trying to raise the issue while offering those who disagree with it an easy way of avoiding the issue by either pointing at some isolated successes or by criticizing us.

"Oh, lets raise the topic of women's rights. You guys have work to do but you're doing great jobs in these countries, and you know what, we've got a lot of work to do to fix the problem in our own country".

What's even worse, is the deplorable, inhumane situation gays and lesbians find themselves in, in many of these Muslim countries (such as Iraq and Saudi Arabia).

[Edan]

What's even worse, is the deplorable, inhumane situation gays and lesbians find themselves in, in many of these Muslim countries (such as Iraq and Saudi Arabia).

Yep

Well, except for Iran. They have no gays in Iran, I'm told.

[OzzyKP]

He starts off raising the issue, saying there's a healthy debate, and considers that education is the key to equality. I'm not sure that alone is the solution, but fine. Then he goes on to almost praise states like Pakistan and Bangladesh while offering criticism of America. That strikes me as a foolish way of trying to raise the issue while offering those who disagree with it an easy way of avoiding the issue by either pointing at some isolated successes or by criticizing us.

"Oh, lets raise the topic of women's rights. You guys have work to do but you're doing great jobs in these countries, and you know what, we've got a lot of work to do to fix the problem in our own country".

Lecturing, condemning and moralizing, especially when you have plenty of skeletons in your own closet doesn't work. Never has, never will. You can't expect someone will like you and listen to you if you go in with the attitude of "you are backwards and wrong, and an evil doer. You better do exactly what I tell you to do."

Focusing only on the good of America and only on the bad of the Muslim world is a disastrous, arrogant combination. Any discussion like this has to start with honesty. Honesty requires that we recognize the good parts of the Muslim world and the bad parts of America. Only through such honesty will people fully listen to a presentation of the good parts of America and the bad parts of the Muslim world.

Being honest and frank takes a great deal of honor, integrity, and humility. Qualities that have been absent recently in American foreign policy. I think it is a refreshing change. Not only is this good on principle, but it will, I believe, yield better results.

[DinoDoc]

Perhaps, you'd be the best person to answer this Ozzy. What did the previous apology tour in Europe get us in the way of substantive help or assistance in Afghanistan?

[Riesstiu IV]

Summary of the speech:

[SlowwHand]

Right.

[Straybow]

Lecturing, condemning and moralizing, especially when you have plenty of skeletons in your own closet doesn't work. Never has, never will. You can't expect someone will like you and listen to you if you go in with the attitude of "you are backwards and wrong, and an evil doer. You better do exactly what I tell you to do."

Focusing only on the good of America and only on the bad of the Muslim world is a disastrous, arrogant combination. Any discussion like this has to start with honesty. Honesty requires that we recognize the good parts of the Muslim world and the bad parts of America. Only through such honesty will people fully listen to a presentation of the good parts of America and the bad parts of the Muslim world.

Being honest and frank takes a great deal of honor, integrity, and humility. Qualities that have been absent recently in American foreign policy. I think it is a refreshing change. Not only is this good on principle, but it will, I believe, yield better results.

Jane, you ignorant slut. You don't do either in foreign relations. Save the whiney stuff for Oprah.

[BeBMan]

And for the thread title, that's obvious trolling bait

[Zkribbler]

He came across as weak.

Obama is the anti-Bush.

[Zevico]

He was nearly apologetic. Exactly the wrong message to send.

Be specific.

[Edan]

Obama is the anti-Bush.

Bush came off as weak too (or, even if he didn't, the incompetency of his administration sure did).

[BeBMan]

The entire fear of "looking weak" comes across as weak to me.

As for what the speech did bring in "substantive help" - that's a point, but one could ask the same about lotsa speeches from various sides at various points.

I find nothing wrong with trying to improve the US' image elsewhere. But that's just me

[Riesstiu IV]

The thing is, how is this speech any different from things that previous presidents said? It's just useless talk.

Of course people like peace in the middle east, fewer religious fanatics, and an end to totalitarian regimes. People have said it for years but it's nothing will ever happen because the middle east is populated by too many insane f*cks who uphold millennia long grudges. Hell, even Palestinians in the West Bank can't even get along with Palestinians in Gaza despite having the same cause. All Obama does is say two words in a foreign language and the media acts like it is some fabulous new beginning of international peace and prosperity.

I would have preferred if Obama tried something different, like staying out of the mess for a change. It's getting tiresome dealing with the Islamic world.