California and Mob Rule

[DanS]

I imagine The Mad Monk is still mad at me for mentioning Nancy's skill at fellatio in Ronnie's memorial thread...

What basis do you have for judging her skill?

[Drake Tungsten]

I'm Peter Lawford

[Edan]

Right, now we get to it. The siren song of progressivism.

Lets ignore the fact that liberal bastions like Wyoming were the first to give women the franchise, and that a Republican named Lincoln freed the slaves.

They were progressive. for the 19th century. It's now the 21st.

Are gay men being lynched?

Ye
s....

[Ben Kenobi]

So, there's been 1 in this decade so far?

That's roughly equal to the rate for black people even now. That's honestly a negligible rate.

Put it this way, from 1940-1965, there were over 200 lynchings of black people in the US.

I don't see how gay people can consider themselves to be treated as second-class citizens at all. Basing the argument on the 4 men who have died in the last 15, really doesn't show to me that it's anything systematic, especially considered with what black people have been through. Frankly it's an insult that their Civil Rights movement has been co-opted by a privileged minority demanding special rights.

[MrFun]

I think Drake is more radical than he realizes, being an advocate for legal polygamous marriage, and all.

[Tuberski]

Where's Asher?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090527/ap_on_re_us/us_gay_marriage

In Los Angeles, about 100 people sat down in an intersection near the University of California, Los Angeles during rush hour and several hundred protesters gathered at a rally in West Hollywood where actress Drew Barrymore addressed the crowd.

Bastards.

ACK!

[DinoDoc]

Where's Asher?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090527/ap_on_re_us/us_gay_marriage

In Los Angeles, about 100 people sat down in an intersection near the University of California, Los Angeles during rush hour...

Wow! That's incredibly dangerous.

[Tuberski]

So, there's been 1 in this decade so far?

That's roughly equal to the rate for black people even now. That's honestly a negligible rate.

Put it this way, from 1940-1965, there were over 200 lynchings of black people in the US.

I don't see how gay people can consider themselves to be treated as second-class citizens at all. Basing the argument on the 4 men who have died in the last 15, really doesn't show to me that it's anything systematic, especially considered with what black people have been through. Frankly it's an insult that their Civil Rights movement has been co-opted by a privileged minority demanding special rights.

People being killed isn't what makes them second class citizens, it's an effect of their second class status.

Honestly, I don't care if gay people can get married or not. Since I don't care, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to marry.

ACK!

[Lorizael]

So, there's been 1 in this decade so far?

That's roughly equal to the rate for black people even now. That's honestly a negligible rate.

Put it this way, from 1940-1965, there were over 200 lynchings of black people in the US.

I don't see how gay people can consider themselves to be treated as second-class citizens at all. Basing the argument on the 4 men who have died in the last 15, really doesn't show to me that it's anything systematic, especially considered with what black people have been through. Frankly it's an insult that their Civil Rights movement has been co-opted by a privileged minority demanding special rights.

According to the FBI, there were 1,460 hate crime offenses based on sexual-orientation bias in 2007, and this number is rising.

And according to this article from the beginning of the year (which is actually an AP article, so me linking to gaylesbiantimes.com doesn't imply bias), because not all jurisdictions report hate crimes, it's likely that the number is higher than reported.

Additionally, there is evidence many gays and lesbians are reluctant to report hate crimes against them because - get this - they don't think it would be safe to out themselves.

[rah]

Never Fear, BK will ignore the facts again and just modify his arguements so they don't make sense in a different way. It's futile. You can't convince an idiot to change his mind when he doesn't have one. Most very religious people don't have one by definition. You can't argue faith. And based on everything we've read at POLY, Faith can't argue anything. I think ben should be required to reference the sites he cuts and pastes from.

[Lorizael]

I can already predict one of his counterarguments, actually, which is that sometimes violence against gays is unrelated to their sexuality but mistakenly gets classified as a hate crime anyway. But even if the mistaken incident rate is 1%, or 10%, or 20%, that's still well over a thousand violent acts against against gays every single year.

He could also make the counterargument that most of these hate crime are probably not literal lynchings, but then my rebuttal would be to laugh at him.

A third point is that hate crimes against gays do happen with much less frequency than hate crimes motivated by race - 16.6% versus 50.8%. But for that I lean back on the fact that there are fewer gays than blacks, gays are harder to spot than blacks, and again, the true number is likely underrepresented due to lack of hate crime legislation and an unwillingness of victims to come forward.

[Arrian]

The voters of CA will just have to deal with this at some point. And they will, probably in the near future.

-Arrian

[DinoDoc]

The voters of CA will just have to deal with this at some point. And they will, probably in the near future.

Isn't the reason for the court decision MrFun was shrieking about the fact that CA voters already dealt with the issue?

[Arrian]

You know perfectly well what I meant.

-Arrian

[DinoDoc]

What issue do you think CA voters should deal with then?