Reading frosty-boy's immigration thread....

[SlowwHand]

A PHD doesn't get you into the zoo quicker. The USA is, or should be, the same.
A zoo.

[notyoueither]

Want to try again, NYE? Both my wife and I can pretty much go anywhere we please.

I feel bad for those of you who can't.



By the way, I'm going to bed. I'll be happy to respond to whatever you come up with in the next 8 hours or so tomorrow morning. Good luck

For those of you who are capable of coherent thought, I'd be interested to hear your responses.

You assume a lot.

[Drake Tungsten]

Most (2/3) legal immigration to the US is via "family sponsored immigrants", i.e. relatives of US citizens

Canada accepts far fewer immigrants based on familial ties (as a proportion of total immigrants).

[Jon Miller]

The useful people immigrating will produce far more than 50k in taxes. It would be better to allow some nurse to immigrate, start work, and produce taxes then keep her in the philipines because she doesn't have the money to make the first jump over here.

I am, of course, in favor of free immigration (of noncriminals as long as they are healthy/able bodies and find work).

If you modified it to be that they can start the immigration process without any payment, but than must pay 20k in lets say 7 years to finish the immigration process, I think that would be a lot more reasonable.

Because things cost so much more in the US than other places (my indian friends/roommates send money home because if they save 100$ a month in food bills than they can buy their mom a house, for example) places a artificially high bar on qualified people to enter the US (namely nurses, engineers, and scientists).

JM

[Jon Miller]

Basically, auctioning off makes a decision based on past earnings in US dollars. A better decision would be based on future earnings in US dollars, as someone who would make a lot here would make next to nothing (in US dollars) elsewhere.

Basing it on auction would give a large advantage to the capitalist classes of other nations and other first world nations, rather than the engineers/nurses/etc of developing countries.

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

In either case, it is the relevant government attempting to decide what makes a valuable resident based on legislative requirements. Those of us who think central planning of the economy is a bad idea in general should shudder at this idea. Who would have a better idea of what the gains from immigration would be? That's right, the IMMIGRANT HIMSELF. How do we allow him to transmit this information? As always, via a price signal. There is already a price signal in the US (the cost of application for employee sponsorship) but this is obviously not high enough as there is still rationing (shortages) of immigration slots.

Agree wholeheartedly about your premisses. My suggestion is rather then auctioning off a fixed number of spots, you place an 'immigration fee' substantially high enough to show that the immigrant is coming in with the resources needed to sustain themselves.

The problem with quotas is that they produce 'false shortages', and distort the demand for immigration. The proper way to do it is to set a price for everyone, and let the price dictate the number of immigrants you get. If there are more then the US wants, the solution is to raise the price point until you get the amount of immigration that you need.

Refugees are the easiest to deal with. The federal government will forego some revenue by accepting refugees (who we'll assume to be liquidity constrained, preventing them from buying an immigration slot). This can be viewed simply as aid to individuals whose own countries have abandoned or persecuted them. It is a gift from a rich country to individuals who as a group might well be worse off than any other group in the world.

I don't see why immigration couldn't be self-funding with a set immigration price. Refugees could simply be provided for from the budget and the monies raised from those who are willing to pay to immigrate to the US.

Now, to family-based immigration: as with refugees, non-auctioned slots are a giveaway to those who get them. However, in this case, they are also giveaways to these immigrants' American family members. Well, why should these particular Americans be given such gifts? Saying they are often poor doesn't hold water, as the money from these immigrants could have been disbursed to ALL poor Americans rather than being given in kind to a certain specific subset of them.

I would change it so that only those who are American citizens can do so. You want to bring your family over, become an American citizen.

[Ben Kenobi]

A: A nurse who is qualified and willing to work in tough areas, like peds or palliative care

B: Some blowhard with a PHD who knows how to cook bank books

I know who I want as a neighbour, and I know who would get in under KH's newly found, money grubbing philosophy.

Which is why mine is superior. Both would get in with my plan.

If an employer thought highly enough to bring someone in, they would just kick in the cash up front and then bob's your uncle. No muss, no fuss.

[dannubis]

Agree wholeheartedly about your premisses. My suggestion is rather then auctioning off a fixed number of spots, you place an 'immigration fee' substantially high enough to show that the immigrant is coming in with the resources needed to sustain themselves.

How very christian of you...

[MOBIUS]

A PHD doesn't get you into the zoo quicker. The USA is, or should be, the same.
A zoo.

It is everywhere I've been - especially Texas...

[Ben Kenobi]

How very christian of you...

That's what my family had to do when they immigrated to Canada, to found a homestead.

http://www.theshipslist.com/Forms/Canreport1900.html

Back in 1900, it would have cost them around 500 dollars, to buy the land, and the transportation costs to get from their farm to Hamburg, from Hamburg to Canada, and then from Canada to the Prairie west. That's not to mention the application fee.

In today's money, that would be the equivalent of roughly 40x more or 20 thousand dollars!

I don't really see why an immigration fee is 'unchristian', considering it wouldn't cost you 20k to fly to Canada these days.

If you set it at a thousand a person, it would be 200 million to fund immigration for Canada. I'd be more inclined to put it up to about 5 thousand dollars.

[Kuciwalker]

edit: I'm an idiot, I thought KH was being quoted.

[Asher]

How very christian of you...

Amazingly enough, I very much doubt Ben could ever qualify if they took his advice. He'd be forever exiled in this totalitarian state with no hope of the freedom of Texas.

[Asher]

Given that he's an atheist... and then given that he actually had slots for the disadvantaged, you're an idiot.

Ben is very much not an atheist...

[Asher]

That's what my family had to do when they immigrated to Canada, to found a homestead.

http://www.theshipslist.com/Forms/Canreport1900.html

Back in 1900, it would have cost them around 500 dollars, to buy the land, and the transportation costs to get from their farm to Hamburg, from Hamburg to Canada, and then from Canada to the Prairie west. That's not to mention the application fee.

In today's money, that would be the equivalent of roughly 40x more or 20 thousand dollars!

I don't really see why an immigration fee is 'unchristian', considering it wouldn't cost you 20k to fly to Canada these days.

If you set it at a thousand a person, it would be 200 million to fund immigration for Canada. I'd be more inclined to put it up to about 5 thousand dollars.

Your family got in around 1900? Newbs.



We had lax standards even back then.

[Arrian]

I'm more interested in KH's support of unlimited immigration (let every non-criminal in). That strikes me as a recipe for quickly overloading the system. Lotsa disruption.

...

Charging hard cash is, to me, a bad idea. Sorting by education/skills seems better to me, as a) a highly skilled person from a poor country could be quite poor in US dollar terms; and b) by using cash you set up an incentive for people to steal enough to get in. If they're not caught stealing by their home country, they get in. Meh.

-Arrian