CV Help

[-Jrabbit]

As for CV vs resume, there's really little practical difference. It's your calling card in a job hunt. If you want to go 2 pages, it's your choice. But a one-pager will get fully read far more often: FACT. And I see nothing to suggest that this document couldn't be condensed to one page with only minimal loss of detail. Which is OK; those become talking points in interviews.

I may take a swing at this in the next few days, but I'm on a couple deadlines right now.

[rah]

One page limit. I agree. I always figure if they can't keep it to one page, they have too big an ego and not enough organizational skills.
I've hired 100's of people and interviewed 1000's. I have NEVER hired anyone with a two page resume.
Leave something for the interview.
And yes, in today's day an age, each resume you send out should be customized for the specific opening.
I would keep a generic list of qualifications and contact info around to hand out if required but would not give it out without a verbal intro.

[Jon Miller]

Teaching is what most PhD students do, in physics, they mostly do research? And I have a lot more experience teaching than most.

JM

[snoopy369]

For a resume, yes. For a CV, no.

But you'll note the purpose - this is a resume, not a CV. This is not for the purpose of academic job hunting, but for business.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Depends on what he's going for, really. Off of that list, there's a couple of options where I'd think he'd want a full length CV, in which case 2 pages is incredibly short for someone with his experience.

JM, you'd be much better off talking to people actually in the field than anyone here. Highly skilled jobs have wildly varying expectations and requirements.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

But you'll note the purpose - this is a resume, not a CV. This is not for the purpose of academic job hunting, but for business.

True, in which case shorter is fine...but stop calling it a CV then.

(Translates as: Yeah, I noticed that, but only after I actually went back and read the thread.)

[Wiglaf]

Why do you repeat "Skill in.." under the SKILLS heading? Redundant and also some of them are stupid. You're good at dealing with large amounts of data, really? SO ARE IPODS :MAD: :amd: :Mad:

[Jon Miller]

I had a big long message that got ate by the forums.

I have been told that dealing with large amounts of data is one of the major things I can offer to groups that have nothing to do with nuclear physics. I know of numerous people who have gotten hired based on that. I am probably not presenting it properly, as it is very different then the large amounts of data you would have on an Ipod.

The wording and presentation of skills and the other sections is one of the things I hope people will assist me with.

As I had posted, which got ate, the big complication is that I don't have the skills for the jobs that I would be applying for. I am trying to show that I should be hired despite this, based on my previous experience as a researcher and graduate student.

JM

[Blaupanzer]

Jon, you tell 'em what you did so you can say what you accomplished. How did you doing the job work out better than someone else in that role? What distinguishes you from the field of others. Get right to the point about the employer's benefit for hiring you. Do this at the top of the first page.

As to length, the hiring manager is only going to read the first page at most. This person will read only that much IF the first two paragraphs grab their interest. If the job announcement comes with all kinds of "must have this" or "must have done that" requirements, then some screener will review your resume for that stuff and they will read all the pages. Otherwise, the later pages can only be there to give someone a chance to screen you out. "Oh look, he worked for Justice under Bush, he can't have intact morals." Or whatever.

When you have 30 years of experience with a ton of possible 'includes' you may benefit from a long resume. Or at least that's what I tell myself as mine slides to 3 pages.

[Japher]

One page limit. I agree. I always figure if they can't keep it to one page, they have too big an ego and not enough organizational skills.
I've hired 100's of people and interviewed 1000's. I have NEVER hired anyone with a two page resume.
Leave something for the interview.
And yes, in today's day an age, each resume you send out should be customized for the specific opening.
I would keep a generic list of qualifications and contact info around to hand out if required but would not give it out without a verbal intro.

One page limit?! This thread actually got me working on mine again. I have been working with a career councilor at school on it but haven't done anything in about 2 weeks, and I told her I'd get back to her shortly.

Anyway, there is no way I can get how great I am into 1 page... at least not without pictures. There's also no way I am taking things out like "strong team player" or "proven ability to lead and inspire others" or "excellent skills at being awesome".

Seriously, I think the fact that rah has never hired anyone with a 2 page resume is a testament to his attention span and not the resume's content or the organization of the applicant.

How about networking cards, or personal business cards with resume highlights?

[Japher]

What is "operation and development in windos and linux" are you saying you know how to click icons?

Did you by chance take the lead in anything? Like the commisioning of a neutron detector, serving as analysis expert and process engineer over the course of the project; collecting and interpreting data, troubleshooting equipment, and developing analytical techniques...?

That's pretty awesome, and sounds much better than "took part in..." I took liberty with the process engineer title, but if that's not a process engineer than I wonder what I've been doing the past 10 years.

[Ben Kenobi]

I basically want something to start with, and then modify it for whatever particular track I am going on.

All I need is your information, your education/work experience plus anything else you feel would be pertinent.

And I had read that two pages was fine because I need to present myself as a highly skilled and worth a decent salary, despite needing training in the area that I will be hired in.

You can do that in one page, Jon. I've never done a CV for anybody more then a page, and if you need more then a page, chance are you either have fluff that can be cut, or you haven't narrowed into the job sufficiently to find the things that you'll need.

[Ben Kenobi]

One page limit?! This thread actually got me working on mine again. I have been working with a career councilor at school on it but haven't done anything in about 2 weeks, and I told her I'd get back to her shortly.

You get what you pay for Japher. Are you paying her? There's no incentive for her to get it just right.

Anyway, there is no way I can get how great I am into 1 page... at least not without pictures. There's also no way I am taking things out like "strong team player" or "proven ability to lead and inspire others" or "excellent skills at being awesome".

Cruft like that? You have to be ruthless, Japher.

Seriously, I think the fact that rah has never hired anyone with a 2 page resume is a testament to his attention span and not the resume's content or the organization of the applicant.

I'm leaning towards Rah's assessment of ego and disorganisation. It's all about marketing Japher, you have to be able to sell yourself in a small amount of space.

[rah]

One page limit?!
Seriously, I think the fact that rah has never hired anyone with a 2 page resume is a testament to his attention span and not the resume's content or the organization of the applicant.

No it's a question of time managment and experience. You have one opening and 150 resumes sitting on your desk. I want creative people even if I'm hiring system techs. For developers, it's a must. People with multiple page resumes (that I actually interviewed) were high on ego and low on creativity. (any one that thinks just listing a lot of supposed accomplishments is the best way to get a job is not that creative, all they're doing is CLAIMING greatness) A person that only has one page usually has the ability to fill in the blanks during the interview in context to the specific position and how the interviewer is navigating the interview. A three page resume is just screaming for attention, "I'm more important". Guess, what, you're not. It's a waste of my time. And if you can't organize why I should interview you in one page, you're lacking some real basic skills.

AND MOST IMPORTANT. The resume gets you the interview. You get the job. A longer resume is more likely to have a red flag for that specific job. A shorter resume may help you when you're lacking specific experience that you would be screened out for. They may figure to bring you in because they weren't sure. Then your personality can close the deal.

In every company I've worked at, I've been considered an excellent hiring manager.
Some of that can be credited to behavioral style interviewing, but part of it is the intial screening since there's no way you have the time to interview everyone. The trick is to do nothing that will kick you from the pool till you get that face to face part.

[Jon Miller]

What is "operation and development in windos and linux" are you saying you know how to click icons?

Well, there isn't much icon clicking in linux. But I agree, that part should go, just like the bit about me knowing AWK.

Did you by chance take the lead in anything? Like the commisioning of a neutron detector, serving as analysis expert and process engineer over the course of the project; collecting and interpreting data, troubleshooting equipment, and developing analytical techniques...?

That's pretty awesome, and sounds much better than "took part in..." I took liberty with the process engineer title, but if that's not a process engineer than I wonder what I've been doing the past 10 years.

Taking responsibility/being the go to person is like taking the lead in something?

And yeah, that sounds a lot better, thank you.

JM