Images from the new terminator

[Darius871]

Again, if Skynet regularly uses METAL SKELETONS with METAL TEETH as frontline combat units, it's retarded.

Serb did leave out one slight possibility: suppose the machines built their "terminator factory" as an extremely efficient and self-sufficient assembly line, which has the capability of cranking out 100 functional skeletons per day. Then suppose that making convincing impantable skin, eyes, hair, etc. turned out to be a real pain in the ass for them, and their lab can only produce enough biological material for about 5 terminators a day. Under such unanticipated circumstances, the economically rational thing for them to do would be to produce 100 skeletons a day, put skin on 5, and send the leftover 95 out for frontline duty without skin. Wasting a 100/day capacity by only building 5/day would be the "retarded" choice.

I didn't see the movie and don't know if it suggested any such thing, but it's a plausible enough explanaton to justify suspension of disbelief, given that even machines can come across unanticipated manufacturing hiccups. I'm sure there were plenty of things in the movie that made much less sense.

[Serb]

Since you haven't seen the movie yet, you have no idea how correct you are here. You have hit the target with your guess 100%. Thanks for your help.

Spoiler: there was the "terminator factory" and the assembly line (first shown in the very limited edition of the origianl terminator film, iirc) and an obvious explanition how that assembly line capabilities can be hampered (by lack of human prisoners as a resource for terminator's flesh).

[Serb]

And loud explosions and sounds of firing laser guns in space (vacuum) we can see in any Star Wars episode are signs of George Lucas retardation? You think he doesn't know that sound do not spread in vacuum?

How are you comparing cinematic effects and the talent of the director to in-universe actions and the talent of the in-universe actor?

I mean - the father of the series James Cameroon brought them on battlefield as frontline units. And I believe he did that with a good reasons.
Lucas knew perfectly well that sounds can't spread in vacuum, but still he did that bullsh!t, because otherwise that would have been another "duff" movie, way more less spectacular. They both did what they thought was GOOD for the movie, despite that was stupid from some point of view (obviously in case of SW, but not so obvious in case of Terminator). Accusing MCG for that is just stupid. He was not the one who came up with this idea. He just continued what have already been shown in the previous movies.

Besides, why calling them terminators, not infiltrators, if they were designed for infiltration only (according to you of course)?

Because their infiltration was with intent to terminate. And it's not just according to me, also according to Kyle Reese.

Once again - they are called terminators, 'cause their main, supreme, ultimate goal, the basic reason of their existence is to terminate humans (by infiltrating their hideouts or not - doesn't matter). If the terminator can terminate enough humans without pretending to be one of them - he will. If he doesn't pursue some kind of highly complicated goal - it returns to its basic programm - kill humans on sight.

[Serb]

On a side note, I just have seen the movie second time (this time I have convinced my wife who resisted to the last moment to see that "male-only robotic bullsh!t) and I'm fairly surprised by two things:
a) there was no a single sign of American flag waving bullsh!t (which very annoyed me at T-3 and put that movie for me at the same league as Spiderman crap).
b) the credit Hollywood still pays to the Russians. I mean the Russian sub as a HQ for the resistance and the Russian navy officer as one of the key leaders of the resistance (though his uniform was hilarious as always and it took me some time and Ironside's replic "Vlasenko!" to understand that he is actually a Russian. The next thing is "suppose to be a future high-tec gadget" which Blair Williams uses to disarm the minefield to escape with Marcus. This is not a future high-tec, but something what Russian army uses since the middle of the 90s to clear the minefields. Oh, and those dirty Russians listening to John Connor voice from radio in a Moscow (more likely Moscow) subway were funny as hell. I can assure you, in case of Judgement Day the last thing we will care about be directions of an any American (even if this American is John Connor).

[Serb]

Because as I recall the next scene, or close to the next scene was the time-travel scene. Thus they ought to be chronologically proximate. (in the time-travelers' subjective time)

Nope. They don't have to be chronologically proximate. The "metal skeletons" was a part of an introduction, the Arnie appearence was the start of the story. During the introduction Sarah was talking about the future in general, not about the last days of Skynet. There was no single mention that the action we see is an agony of Skynet, on the opposite - that was a demonstration of the routine nightmare the humans have faced after the judgement day (the nightmare of war vs. machines).

[tinyp3nis]

T2 was a remake of T1 and T3 was a remake of T2. So is the fourth one the first sequel that isn't a remake? I had bookmarked a site with comparison of T2 and T3 but it's gone now, I did find this link http://www.retrojunk.com/details_articles/4864/
The other comparison had maybe 3 times more examples than that. I tried to find an article or something about T1 vs T2 but couldn't find anything, but T2 is a remake of the first one because I say so then
Also, skulls look scary morans.

[Serb]

T4 sucked donkey testicles and completely sh*t all over T1 and T2.

No sh!t, Sherlock. No other terminator movie can be better than those two (esp. T-2 which is PERFECTION) and no other director can be better than James Cameroon for directing a terminator movie. The guy has created it. You cannnot repeat the perfection of the Judgement Day. Nobody can.

BUT, comparing to the f*ck-up of the third part, Salvation is just great. Besides, it's about the future and that is what distinguish it from the previous movies. And I just love any post-apocalyptic bullsh!t, but when that post-apocalyptic bullsh!t takes place in my favorite Terminator universe - I have a complete orgasm. No more, no less. This movie is a true resurrection of the franchise - it's something where T-3 has terribly failed. And you guys just fail to see something actually NEW, 'cause you have expected the same flow of events - "return back in time to kill John Connor". Wake-up already. This is not "the end is near" anymore. The end is history now. We have to move further and beat that f*cking piece of suppose to be smart machinery forever.
The part four is pretty much like the Episode four. You just didn't get it yet. With years this film will become the same classic as the New Hope (for its respective series I mean, I do not mean to compare T-4 with the SW episode-4).

Massive plot holes:

I think now I have enough time to answer you questions.

1. How in the world does Skynet know that Kyle Reese was John Connor's father?

And who told you it does know?

We don't know what exactly did happen between 2003 when John and Cate hid their precious asses in a hideout and 2018, when the action took place.
I don't know the exact English text, but the Russian subtitles at the beggining of the movie were something like this: "blah-blah-blah about the Judgement Day... some resistance leaders have lost their faith, but not the self-proclaimed leader of the resistance. His name is - John Connor".

That presumes that between 2003 and 2018 John had spread enough of bullsh!t (via radio) about his destiny, his past and his origin. The next scene proves that point when one of his brothers in arms tells him:
- It's T-800, just like you have foreseen!
- No, it's worse.
Another scene further proves that point when John is talking to Marcus:

John: You killed my mother - Sarah Connor. You killed my father - Kyle Reese. No, you will not kill me.

Marcus: Kyle Reese is in a harvester now heading to the Skynet base! If I wanted to kill him - I would have a long time ago.
(or something like that, pardon my rusty English)

While John is saying that, his comrades are listening to him. And they are not surprised by this bullsh!t at all. That means only one obvious thing - they've already heard that kind of crap (about the father who is younger than his son) many times already.
I mean - the Skynet either could intercept John Connor's radio weekly sermons or there was a traitor among the resistance fighters who betrayed John and told Skynet the name of John's father.
Or, the Skynet has become in aware (thanks to this traitor or somehow) that John is very interested in fate of one particular civilian person (and I'm sure he was, as any ordinary human would have been interested in faith of his father and would try to find him) - Kyle Reese for some unknown reason. You need nothing more to use Kyle to lure John into a trap. You don't have to know why exactly Kyle is so important to John. To make a trap the knowledge that he is important for John is more than enough.

2. Why did Skynet even need to lure John Connor to the factory/base after they captured Kyle Reese? They could have immediately killed him right then and there which would have presumably altered the timeline so that John was never born.

The action tooks place in 2018, not in 2029, when the Skynet is desperately losing the war.
In 2018 Skynet is pretty happy with the current situation - it is winning the war.

If it kills John Connor now in 2018 - it wins the war 99% ('cause it will destroy a potential future threat, by killing the human's leader now and left the human society with no time "to produce" another one leader of that scale to replace John (John was raised by his mother with the only idea of him become a great leader, a saviour of mankind. He never liked that crap, but Sarah has prepared and trained him for that role since the first day of his life). Without John someone will still head the resistance anyway, but will that person be so ready is a big question.

If it kills Kyle - we have a whole different timeline and who knows what can happen there? Because if you kill Kyle now in 2018 - that means this universe must dissapear with the dissaperence of John Connor and the Skynet have to do it from scratch and went through the Judgement Day to rise to power. The death of John Connor was always a goal for the Skynet, but was never a guaranteed win. The attempt to kill the leader of the human resistance was a DESPERATE attempt of the Skynet of 2029 in his fight for survival. Killing John was just an experiment of a researcher who is in desperate situation and have no other way to save its ass. That was the last resort of the Skynet. But as any other experiment there was no 100% guarantee that it will be a success. So, why the hell Skynet of 2018 (which is winning the war) must act like the Skynet of 2029 (which is losing the war)? I mean for Skynet of 2018 John is a primary target, Kyle is a secondary target (despite the list the humans have intercepted). You kill John now - and you win the war with pretty much good probability. You kill Kyle now - and you automatically kill John and you win the war with high, but not that high probability, 'cause you will have to go from scratch after this universe will dissapear due to the death of Reese (and therefore John). It's pretty logical to lure John into a trap by using Kyle and then kill just John, then you don't have to destroy this universe to win the war anymore. Or, if something goes wrong - you can always switch to plan B and just kill Kyle (he is already in your arms and completely helpless, doesn't he? You can kill him any second you wish). Since Skynet captures Kyle it is a win-win situation for it.

And one more interesting thing - as Sarah has shaped that pretty well in a T-2 novel (and at the end of the T-1 movie): this time bullsh!t is really about the snake biting its own tail. If you don't send your father back in time - you will not be born.
The same goes for the Skynet. Ok, so it kills Kyle in 2018 - John Connor was never born - the Skynet do not send T-800 back in time to kill Sarah Connor - there are not remains of (destroyed by Sarah) T-800 in the past - Skynet was never born (because Skynet was based on remains of T-800). This whole universe where Skynet exist is just a one big time paradox. And you think the "I'm winning the war with these organic weaklings" Skynet model-2018 would put it's victory and even existance in jeopardy by killing Reese, when he has a great chance to just kill John? Why? For Skynet the CSM-101 of T-800 series sent back in time is absolutely the same as Kyle Reese for John Connor. You kill one - you kill the other. Sure you can say that Skynet could just send a brand new Arnie to 80s to surrender to the military and become an object of research for them. But in this case it will not be a time paradox. This whole story is about the time paradox, God damn it. And Skynet must understand that.

That was if we assume that Skynet of 2018 is somehow (thanks to a traitor or John own's radio transmissions) knows that Reese is John's father.
But if it doesn't, but it does know that Kyle is somehow important to John than I don't see how Kyle can be anything, but a perfect lure for killing John.

3. Why would Skynet not place some kind of programming controls so that Marcus Wright would bot be able to rebel. If they can alter his perception of the world, why not place safeguards to ensure his loyalty? Makes no f*cking sense.

That makes a perfect sence actually. The whole point to the Skynet for creating Marcus was to make a machine that will not only look like a human, but also think like a human, sense like a human and consider itself a human. Otherwise it won't have a chance to infiltrate THAT deep. Marcus is just a puppet for the Skynet and that puppet must be more a human than a machine to complete its mission (so that condition alone hampers the control capabilities).
Besides, in a limited edition of T-2:JD there was a scene where Sarah and John disable Arnie for a short period of time and Sarah wants to kill him, but John instead insist on sticking to the previous plan and just remove the safeguard. Well, not exactly a safeguard actually - they remove its main chip and switch it to the self-education mode. So they do, and after that Arnie starts learning to be more human "chill-out, d!ckhead... hasta la vista, baby, etc". Marcus does exactly the same (removes the safeguard from his head) but without someone else help. 'cause he is a thousand times more a human than any T-800 or any cyborg ever were. He is a sort of Robocop with the organic brain and heart under the steel exoskeleton, not a microchip and steel skeleton covered by human flesh for disguise. What I am trying to say is that if a 100% machines could overide security barriers (remember how Arnie reloads in T-3 after that nano-biatch takes control over him?) why a machine that consider itself a human can't?

4. Why does Skynet's military base have key pads and other human friendly features which would be completely unnecessary for cyborgs?

That was really dumb. I agree.
I can only make a suggestion why that was in the movie - to make a refference to the T-2, where young John hacked cash terminals and top secret Cyberdine security systems equaly easily. Watching the Judgemnt Day, did you realy think that such kid (11 years old?) have a chance to hack security systems of such corporation (that is producing the most advanced toys for the US military) as Cyberdine? Either John Connor is a genious or the guys responsible for security of the most wanted US military secrets are so dumb that even a kid with a cheap laptop can override their defences within a couple of minutes.

5. Why does skynet conveniently store nuclear power cells on a table out in the open?

Why the hell not? This table is in the middle of the terminator factory, which in turn is in the middle of Skynet base. The perimiter is pretty much secured by giant cyborg tanks and other terminators. So, it's pretty safe there, why not then?

Remember those awesome battle scenes at the beginning of T2 where robotic tanks supported by dozens of T-800s and cyborg fighter planes fought humans who were forced live underground like animals? They completely threw that out the window in T4.

Firstly, in 2018 T-800 is just a prototype. There are no mass-production of this model, yet. So, forget about "dozens of T-800s fighting humans". Secondly, they've killed a sh!tload of cyborgs at the oppening scene of the assault on the Skynet facility. Thirdly, when the only survivour of that assault (John Connor) returns back home - it is pretty much a return to the "underground where humans live like animals".

Instead humans have their own military instillations and most of the fighting scenes had 3 cyborgs at most. Not only that these military bases are supposedly hidden despite the resistance's constant use of radios.

I believe that humans would never had a chance to win the war, by hidding under the ground only. There must be a front, must be some secured, well-protected areas, a strongpoints to have a chance to win the war. The resistance must have control over some territory (to manufacture weapons and anything war-related). The partisan warfare won't win a war vs. machine for ya, 'cause the machines do not care about public opinion and their own casualities.
Ok, there was a one minute long battle scene in T-2 (and that was classic of course), but what about the giant cyborg and the following chase? If you'll say that this episode "sucked donkey testicles", I'll spit in your face (j/k). You have to agree that was God damn COOL.

There were no armies of cyborgs or massive battles. Instead we see a single T-600 with a do-rag (seriously, why?) patrolling all of LA.

Why? Because it (or can I say "he" here?) is an early model (Kyle was talking about in T-1, the one with the rubber skin) and obviously that exact product of the 600s series have seen many battles and have been manufactured a long time ago.
Who told you it is the ONLY T-600 cyborg patrolling ALL of LA?
That's just bullsh!t, man. That was the only T-600 Kyle and Marcus have meet in that part of LA. (Not to mention the flying cyborgs they have meet immediately after the T-600 encounter).

T4 was utter crap like the Mi-26 and is only further another example of Hollywood running a classic franchise into the ground.

I'm glad you took you words back.

Seriously man, this movie is much better than one can expect after the complete f*ck-up of the third part.

[Serb]

T2 was a remake of T1 and T3 was a remake of T2.

T-2 was never a remake of T-1. That was a continuation of the story. Cameroon just brought his brilliant idea to the next (still, and never unreachable) level. T-3 was crap.

So is the fourth one the first sequel that isn't a remake?

Yep, it is.
T-4 contains a SH!TLOADS of references to the first two terminator movies (that is one of the reasons why I enjoy it so much), but it is not in any way a dumb copy/paste of the previous part as T-3 was.
These references are suited perfectly fine in the new story.

I had bookmarked a site with comparison of T2 and T3 but it's gone now, I did find this link http://www.retrojunk.com/details_articles/4864/
The other comparison had maybe 3 times more examples than that.

Thanks. That is exactly what I was talking about: T-3 was a dumb copy/paste, a failed remake of the perfect Judgement Day. That movie buried my hopes for the ressurection of the franchise. But Salvation is indeed a Salvation for the terminator series.

I tried to find an article or something about T1 vs T2 but couldn't find anything, but T2 is a remake of the first one because I say so then

You can say that another thousand times, but it won't change the fact that T-2 wasn't a clone of the previous movie (JD is perfect God damn it, so, back-off biatch, don't even think about sh!tting on my favorite movie of all times). T-3 was a clone of the previous part, but T-2 and T-4 are not.

Also, skulls look scary morans.

No sh!t.

[Ben Kenobi]

Is it really that good? I'll have to try seeing it.

I thought it would be as terrible as T3.

[Kuciwalker]

BK, stop spamming please. I'm not interested in your posts, and when you do post in a thread I can no longer tell at a glance if someone intelligent has posted in it because you now show up as the most recent poster.

[Ben Kenobi]

Well clearly you haven't anything to say on the terminator. This thread is about the terminator.

[Alinestra Covelia]

"Most reason poster" = BK, according to Kuciwalker.

[Ben Kenobi]

I was just as surprised myself.

[Serb]

Is it really that good?

Yes it is.

I'll have to try seeing it.

Must see.

I thought it would be as terrible as T3.

I was afraid of the same. I'm glad I was wrong.

[Serb]

Besides, Ben, they have changed the initial scenario to avoid hurting your religious feelings. Initially John Connor must die at the end of Salvation, but then ressurect as a cyborg (created by other leaders of the human resistance) to keep leading humankind to the victory in this war.
In 2018 when he dies he is 33 years old. His initials - J.C. is something familiar, no? (Jesus Christ had the same). So, initially the main idea of the fourth movie was supposed to be a copy/paste of the Holy Bible. That's why it was called Salvation in the first place.
I'm glad they have realized how crappy that was (a machine leading humans to victory in a war vs. machines is just inexcusable, pure, refined, blatant bullsh!t) and re-writed the final (and made another cool reference to the T-2 by doing so).