How Long Will It Take To Get An Obama Holiday?

[Ben Kenobi]

What "heat" is there for me in you being a racist douchebag?

You are the only one tossing uncalled invectives.

I'd vote for Keyes, without thinking twice about it. He's a good man.

If a black man or a white man for that matter, votes for Obama because he's black, then that's wrong. I don't see why it's racist to point out how people fall short of MLK's ideal of a colourblind society.

Who here said white people not voting for Obama was necessarily due to racism?

Heard it for months. I've not forgotten. I'd like to see apologies from folks for calling people who had legitimate beefs with Obama racists, including you now, since you've called me racist.

You started the racial stuff in this thread. Holy ****, you're delving to new lows.

Where did I use the term racist? I simply said they did not uphold MLK's ideals. You were the first to call me racist.

[Ben Kenobi]

Even if true, this was before Nixon and his courting of racists with the Southern Strategy. Continuing with your near-total ignorance of American politics and history, I guess you don't know that the Republican Party of 40-50 years ago isn't nearly the same party that is today.

Neither are the Democrats. MLK would be solidly in Keyes camp today. He'd be horrified in the man America chose to appoint as their president to represent 'black people'.

Have you missed the fact that his daughter is absolutely disgusted by Obama?

I can see MLK voting for Reagan, and saying the same thing as Reagan.

So long as moron Republicans continue to blame everyone but themselves for why black people have voted against them by 90+% for decades, they won't ever do any better with them as a voting bloc.

Yes, I can't wait until black people leave the Democrat plantation. LBJ was the worst thing ever to happen to Black people with his great society. Look at the illegitimacy rates, since his bills came through. If you make someone economically dependent on the government, then they are going to vote with their pocketbook.

As for Keyes, I don't think the problem is in his black support, but the fact that white people won't vote for him.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Have you missed the fact that his daughter is absolutely disgusted by Obama?

From election night:

In the Ebenezer Baptist Church, Mr King's family church, thousands of people congregated to watch the election unfold on huge television screens while being entertained by famous gospel singers. Outside police roadblocks were formed to control the huge crowds gathering to witness history unfold.

The congregation was whipped into a fever throughout the evening with specially-written songs including "we started at the outhouse... going to the White House... Yes we can, yes we can."

Mr King's daughter, the Reverend Bernice King, was one of the first to call the contest when shortly after 9pm she urged the crowds to change their chant from "yes we can" to "yes we have".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/3385972/Barack-Obama-victory-hailed-as-the-realisation-of-Martin-Luther-Kings-dream.html

From an interview yesterday:

Tammy Haddad: Is [your father's] dream realized with the inauguration of Barack Obama?

Bernice King: I think Barack Obama's inauguration is a significant milestone in the work and vision that my father cast when he delivered his "I Have a Dream" speech. I believe that we still have a lot of work to do, which relates to racial equality and economic equality and even in the other areas my father talked about: the triple evils of poverty, racism and militarism. . . . We have a lot of work to do in that regard in this nation and around the world.

TH: Does it turn a corner?

BK: . . . Oh, yes, I think the inauguration actually lays the foundation and the groundwork for continuing my father's unfinished work. I think President-elect Obama has created a sincere and genuine atmosphere of change. It forwards people an opportunity to really step into that change, to look at the ways they perhaps have been doing things that have hindered the progress of America, whether it's corporate, or whether it's educational, or whether it's any other kind of institution, or even individually. . . . We've moved to a new chapter in our history. We cannot, and I say this loudly, we cannot go back to business as usual.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/18/AR2009011802104.html

Yep, just disgust a-go-go there.

Once again I ask, as I do in so many threads:

1) Are you stupid, a liar, or both?
2) Is there anything -- anything -- you actually do know about American history and politics?

[Imran Siddiqui]

MLK would be solidly in Keyes camp today.

Sig material. Totally.

[Ben Kenobi]

Yep, just disgust a-go-go there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveda_King

I was thinking of his neice.

Once again I ask, as I do in so many threads:

1) Are you stupid, a liar, or both?
2) Is there anything -- anything -- you actually do know about American history and politics?

And you owe me an apology.

[Imran Siddiqui]

No he doesn't. You were wrong!

You should be apologizing to him.

[Ben Kenobi]

How was I lying?

I admitted I was mistaken, not about her politics, but about whether she was a daughter of his.

My point still stands.

I'd like an apology for the liar and the comment about 'I know nothing about American politics'.

[-Jrabbit]

So YOU made a mistake, Ben. How does that qualify for an apology from anyone else?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'd like an apology for the liar and the comment about 'I know nothing about American politics'.

You'd like an apology for things that are all true? Maybe you were just "mistaken" and not "lying" (like I'd believe that), but you've shown yourself to lie and display a stunning ignorance about American politics since you've posted here.

[Ben Kenobi]

You'd like an apology for things that are all true?

Where have I lied? If Rufus has proof that I lied, then I'd like to see that. Otherwise I'd like an apology from him.

Maybe you were just "mistaken" and not "lying" (like I'd believe that), but you've shown yourself to lie and display a stunning ignorance about American politics since you've posted here.

Obviously, since I mistook his neice for his daughter. I'll bet very good money you never even heard of her until I mentioned her here.

As soon as I saw your quote, and it wasn't Alveda, I thought several things. 1, it was his other daughter, 2, it was another relative. That's why I checked up her earlier statement and saw that it was his neice.

[-Jrabbit]

Ben: Personally, I would characterize your knowledge of American politics as, um, convenient to your agenda.

Some good examples within this thread would be your laughable and unsupported contention that MLK would vote for Keyes. Even better is your TOTALLY RACIST contention that the Great Society programs somehow singled out blacks as beneficiaries of social programs and somehow imprisoned them to the Dem "plantation." Those programs -- passed by Congress, not mandated by a President -- benefited poor whites every bit as much. Yet the white underclass has voted -- against their pocketbooks -- with the GOP Southern Strategy on a consistent basis.

[Ben Kenobi]

Some good examples within this thread would be your laughable and unsupported contention that MLK would vote for Keyes. Even better is your TOTALLY RACIST contention that the Great Society programs somehow singled out blacks as beneficiaries of social programs and somehow imprisoned them to the Dem "plantation."

Why not? Dr. King was a Baptist Minister.

Why do you believe that King would reject Keyes? Is it because you, a white yankee liberal knows squat about the south?

You need to read more of the racist Thomas Sowell. Oh yes. He's one of them good ol' southrons, from North Carolina to boot.

Damn, I'm racist for believing blacks can succeed and earn the American dream no different then anyone else. I believe they can do better, and deserve better then a handout.

Those programs -- passed by Congress, not mandated by a President

Great Society was LBJ's dream. He had the idea and Congress approved. Granted, Congress is partially to blame, but if LBJ weren't there neither would have the Great Society.

I can show you the statistics, before and after. Out of wedlock births went up dramatically for black folks right after the Great Society passed.

-- benefited poor whites every bit as much.

Benefitted? It's a disaster. White folks aren't quite as badly off with their families, but they are much worse off now then they were 40 years ago.

Yet the white underclass has voted -- against their pocketbooks -- with the GOP Southern Strategy on a consistent basis.

Yes, because the po' whites are racists and just want to keep the black man down. Is that it Jrabbit?

I don't see where you get off calling me a racist.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Where have I lied?

You lied on this thread. Because, frankly, I don't believe you when you said you made a "mistake". You tend to make a lot of "mistakes" in political/US History discussions. I think you are trying to sneak a lie in and then have to back track when you get caught.

[Ben Kenobi]

You lied on this thread.

I'd like an apology from you as well Imran. What evidence do you have to back any of it up?

Because, frankly, I don't believe you when you said you made a "mistake".

What else am I supposed to do? I admitted I mistook his neice for one of his daughters.

You tend to make a lot of "mistakes" in political/US History discussions. I think you are trying to sneak a lie in and then have to back track when you get caught.

The difference between you and me, Imran, is that I'd not call you a liar without evidence to back it up. If you are going to call people liars, then you better damn well have some evidence or I'm going to ask for an apology from you.

I'm really tired of folks running their mouths off. Sure I get that you are angry but that doesn't justify you calling me a liar.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Benefitted? It's a disaster. White folks aren't quite as badly off with their families, but they are much worse off now then they were 40 years ago.

Liar:

http://www.measuringworth.org/usgdp/

Plugging in Real GDP per capita for 1968 to 2007 (last year they have data on file) gets me:

1968 $18,196
1969 $18,573
1970 $18,391
1971 $18,771
1972 $19,555
1973 $20,484
1974 $20,195
1975 $19,961
1976 $20,822
1977 $21,565
1978 $22,526
1979 $22,982
1980 $22,666
1981 $23,007
1982 $22,346
1983 $23,146
1984 $24,593
1985 $25,382
1986 $26,024
1987 $26,664
1988 $27,514
1989 $28,221
1990 $28,429
1991 $28,007
1992 $28,556
1993 $28,940
1994 $29,741
1995 $30,128
1996 $30,881
1997 $31,886
1998 $32,833
1999 $33,904
2000 $34,759
2001 $34,659
2002 $34,866
2003 $35,403
2004 $36,356
2005 $37,080
2006 $37,750
2007 $38,148

(using 2000 prices)

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