Russians stop gas shipments to Europe

[Dinner]

On the Turkish pipeline, would you send it through Syria or Iraq?

Syria has no gas or oil so either Iraq or Iran. Another option is to copy the oil pipeline under the Caspian Sea only make the new one for natural gas. That should allow delivery of central Asian gas which currently must be routed through Russia. Also both Algeria and Tunis have fair amounts of natural gas so pipelines from Morocco-Spain or Tunis-Sicily could provide a 3rd and 4th avenue.

Supply diversification really would help so next time Putin wants to play these games supplies can be gotten from else where and Putin can wonder where all of his export money went.

[TCO]

Georgia pipelines looking desirable now...albiet USSR ability to interfere with Georgia with pretext is high (or even Ukraine with Crimean pretext)

[Tattila the Hun]

Hey, we need all this gas and oil stuff added to the next Civ.

[onodera]

Hey, we need all this gas and oil stuff added to the next Civ.

And atrocities!

[Heresson]

No, Ukraine:
Also, let us finish Nord Stream. Then we'll have the Ukraine by the balls.

You know well Russia uses pipelines and economics in general for agressive political play. Some soviet statued removed from the capital of Estonia, Talinn --> railways to Estonia and power supply lines suddenly fail and need a long long fixing.
Polish company buys a refinery in Lithuania instead of a russian one --> the refinery suddenly gets destroyed by fire, and, what a coincidence, the pipeline to it breaks and Russians need months to fix it.

Poland supports Ukraine in conflict with Russia - Russia finds polish food products unproper for its markets and starts embargo.

You can cry, onodera, but Moscow has well deserved lack of trust.

[DaShi]

Russia also uses the pipes to smuggle drugs into Eastern Europe.

[Pekka]

Well, no one is benefiting from this. Russia is not going to benefit from alienating EU as a partner, on the contrary.

Besides, I do think that Russia has some legitimacy to their claim, parallel to what onodera posted. **** it, I do not think Ukraine is a reliable member country AT ALL. Surely Russia needs to pay coins for them, but I just have a gut feeling this time Ukraine is partly, if not solely, to blame.

IMO we should stand together against Russia in EU, but to only show unified front, and then choke Ukraine ourselves. Take care of that pest, and then normalize relationship with Russia again. I don't know, send them free bananas or something,

[TCO]

Ukraine can do whatever they want! That gas passes through their territory. The Eurowimps are pussified, just like we expected. And Finland is all Finlandized anyhow. Russia's little *****. I like Russia more than the ***** countries that appease them.

[BeBMan]

We should defend the Ukraine at all costs, like the US did with its ally Georgia. Ha!

[Dr Strangelove]

Putnin ordered the pipeline shutdown and reportedly asked for neutral observers to inspect the line for theft of gas by the Ukrainians. I take it that means that he'll have to turn it back on, since obviously the Ukrainians can't steal gas from a pipe that's shut off.

Is it unreasonable for the Russians to ask for neutral observers?

[SlowwHand]

I don't know if you've noticed (collectively), but this with OPEC lowering production has started gas prices rising again. If someone said it, excuse me.

[onodera]

You know well Russia uses pipelines and economics in general for agressive political play.

Yes, we do. Who doesn't?

[Unimatrix11]

Yeah, slowwhand, the gas-price is fixed to the oil price (thus any speculation, that russia does this to raise the gas-price are off).

[fed1943]

As a matter of fact Russia can sell or not its own gas; only the countries without
atomic weapons cannot decide about their own commodities.
Best regards,

[Lancer]

Long have I dealt with the Russian, facing him across a Curtain of Iron he drew down upon an arbitrary line and this I have learned and will share with you now...

You don't have to verify he's being a Russian if you never trust him not to be.