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If the Ukes don't want to ship they don't have to. It's their frigging country! We didn't even connect the Alaska pipeline to the lower 48 for this reason. And the Europeans are quivering and bristling for Russian invasion of Ukraine to allow them direct connection.
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Of course they are. And THEY DESERVE TO. It's their country. You need to pay for the transhipment. They can ask for whatever they want to.Originally posted by Colonâ„¢ View Post
I'm just waiting for you little appeasement Nazi/Nazi speed bumps to accede to some Russian imperialism. WELL **** THAT.Comment
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Of course Ukraine has the right to do whatever it wants with its pipelines, including sticking them in... the ground.
The timing of this affair is awful. While governments everywhere are trying to boost economies, Russians and Ukrainians are trying to bust them
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Hey, you could say the same thing about Saudi Arabia, but do you think there's a chance in the forseeable future of any US or European administration NOT sucking up to the house of Saud?Originally posted by Oerdin View Post
Is Russia's asking price of $450 / 1000 cubic meters out of line with the current world market? In terms of energy equivalence I that's similar to asking about $75 for a barrel of oil. I think that the energy of one barrel of oil is about equal to that of 160 to 170 cubic meters of gas. OTOH the energy efficiency of ways in which gas is used is generally much higher than that of typical usage of petroleum products, so paying $70 for an amount of gas with energy equal to $37 worth of petroleum may actually be a really good deal. Also raw petroleum has to be further refined, which adds to the cost. Distribution by pipe is probably cheaper than by ship and truck too."I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!Comment
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I'm not sure about European prices, but if my calculations are correct, then the comparable US wholesale price is about $175 per 1000 m^3 ($4.90 per 1000 ft^3). Russia's asking price is basically at the June '08 highs in the US.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Go Ukraine. Watch the little Nazis try to support a Hitler-Stalin pact all over again. Well the Europeans are un-people. Scum. Hope they freeze to death. Die. DIE!Comment
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I thought they were asking $ 450 per m^3? That's what Reuters was saying. Ukraine wants to pay $179 per m^3, but Russia says that everyone else is paying $450, so that's what they want Ukraine. Even if that's a high price it apparently is cheap enough that not until the supply got cut off did the rest of Europe start talking about re-starting the nuclear and coal plants they've shut down in the past few years. I presume they shut those plants down because coal was cheaper or because of environmental requirements where gas was an acceptable practical alternative.Originally posted by DanS View Post
As I said in the previous post when you take into account the energy efficiency of gas a price of $450 per m^3 may actually be reasonable - unless someone with engineering experience can show us otherwise."I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!Comment
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Yes, Russia's asking $450 from Ukraine, when in the US it can be had on the open market for $175. In other words, as of right now, at first blush, Russia's asking price is extremely unreasonable and Ukraine's bid price is reasonable.Originally posted by Dr Strangelove View PostI came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Gazprom offered $250, Ukraine demanded $201 if transit fees were raised.DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.Comment
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Obviously, $250 is still well above market. Until demonstrated otherwise, I'll continue to believe that Ukraine is holding to the more reasonable position, at least as far as the headline price goes (don't know about the transit fee). $179 seems like a good bid price that is easily justifiable.Last edited by DanS; January 15, 2009, 21:09.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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That silly Croat should try visiting the US sometime if he thinks no one uses central heating. Ever been to NYC?Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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Go back to sleep. He's talking about something different -- hot water as a utility. Almost nobody has this setup in the US.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Then he should have said he was talking about water instead of calling it central heating.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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No, he called it "central city heating," Einstein. He even invited you to educate yourself on the topic.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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There are central city plants like that in a lot of downtowns for several bocks wide.Comment
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