Rev. Rick Warren to give the invocation on Inauguration Day?

[Elok]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
What do you actually find wrong with these statements? You may disagree with them but I fail to see anything offensive about them.

Again I must agree with DD, at least on the second. He's criticizing a specific tendency within some modern churches--an emphasis on social justice initiatives at the expense of spiritual concerns--not just mindlessly vilifying their members.

As for the abortion bit, it's annoying that he Godwinizes like too many other pro-lifers, but aside from that he's not that bad. He could be much worse, and indeed sounds far more reasonable than Falwell ever did. No mention of Planned Parenthood being full of lesbian satanists or anything.

It seems Obama's just appealing to the center, more or less.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles

Originally posted by MrFun
And now I've just remembered who Rev. Wright is. The insane black reverend whom Obama was formerly associated with.

He's not insane. Wright's views are actually fairly mainstream among Black people. And most of his views are actually close to reflecting reality, unlike, say, yours. Yeah, he has a few kooky views, but then again, he is a Christian.

Dude, you've seen threads and posts where I have talked about the government's deplorable record in dealing with the early AIDS crisis, right?? You've seen where I've clearly expressed that Reagan and others in the government were guilty of gross neglect derived from ignorance, denial and homophobia.

BUT, even I refuse to come to the conclusion that the federal government DELIBERATELY, with cold calculation, invent or introduced AIDS in our country to wipe out gay people. So I still stand that Wright is kooku with his belief that the government tried using AIDS to wipe out blacks.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Elok


It seems Obama's just appealing to the center, more or less.

There is nothing moderate/centrist about Warren.

[SlowwHand]

He doesn't do anything to change my opinion, and I'm a moderate independent.

[OzzyKP]

Considering all the AIDS talk in this thread, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the good work Warren has done fighting AIDS.

Rick Warren Aids summit aims to 'disturb' Christians
by Michelle Vu, Christian Today US Correspondent
Posted: Friday, November 30, 2007, 8:49 (GMT)

Saddleback Church's Aids summit kicked off Wednesday with hopes to "disturb" the hearts of those in attendance and mobilise congregations around the world to defeat the global pandemic.

The third annual Global Summit on AIDS and the Church has attracted about 1,000 people to the megachurch in Lake Forest, southern California, to learn how churches and individuals can help fight the deadly virus.

"This is the one place you can talk about Aids to your heart's content," said Kay Warren, co-host of the November 28-30 summit, according to the Orange County Register. "You're going to hear things you don't agree with and you may find you're at polar opposites with a speaker ... but we can't stop Aids unless we come together."

Warren, who founded the Aids ministry at Saddleback Church, added: "I have a goal to mess with your comfortable world. I want your heart to be seriously disturbed."

Kay Warren, wife of Saddleback's founding pastor Rick Warren, was disturbed five years ago from her comfortable life as a "white suburban mum with a minivan" when she read a magazine article that stated that more than 12 million children in Africa had been orphaned by Aids, according to Reuters.

Since then, the Warrens have launched what is thought to be the only global HIV and Aids conference built entirely around a grassroots church-based strategy.

"The Bible commands the church to care for widows and orphans," Rick Warren said Wednesday at the summit. "With 143 million orphans in the world, I'd say that we have plenty of opportunity to make good on that mandate and demonstrate the love of Christ to children who have nothing to lose but hope. And we should never discount the power of hope."

The HIV and Aids initiative at Saddleback is a key part of Rick Warren's P.E.A.C.E. plan, a humanitarian strategy launched three years ago. The goal of the worldwide effort is to mobilise one billion church members to Promote reconciliation, Equip servant leaders, Assist the poor, Care for the sick and Educate the next generation.

A session at the summit will feature a report about the P.E.A.C.E. plan progress and the lessons learned over the past three years after sending out more than 7,500 members to test the plan in 69 countries.

"One of the most exciting things about this third conference is that we actually have progress to report," Kay Warren said, according to a summit report. "The first conference was about casting a vision; the second conference was about gaining momentum; and this conference is about reporting what has worked, what has really worked well, and what still needs to be done."

During a summit press conference, Rick Warren was questioned on whether working alongside groups that oppose Christian moral values on Aids issues might require compromise.

"I don't believe in compromising biblical convictions," he responded, according to World Net Daily. "I don't believe in that at all. If it's in the Word, then that's the way it should be done. I do believe in treating people with respect, even people that I disagree with. I think Jesus did that."

The megachurch pastor noted that he can work with people in areas of common interest to help others although he might disagree with them in other areas.

"I see Jesus as my model, not politics," Warren said. "And I think too many people look at issues from a political viewpoint, and they choose politics over saving lives.

"To me, if someone is dying on the side of the street, and I need help to save that person, it doesn't matter to me if they are Republican or Democrat, or Jewish and Christian, Muslim or atheist," the Purpose Driven Life author said. "If they will help me get that person to the hospital, I want their help."

Warren affirmed, however, that his church's "number one goal" is still to "help people to get into heaven".

Saddleback Church has baptised more than 20,000 new believers in the last 10 years, Warren said.

"There's not a church in America that wins more people to Christ than Saddleback Church. So this in no way has diluted our evangelistic efforts."

As an example, he pointed to David Miller, the founder of a radical gay-activist group ACT Up, who became a Christian after he was invited to Saddleback's first Aids conference.

"I have watched the transformation in this man," said Warren, from someone who hated the church all his life to becoming a follower of Jesus Christ, according to WND.

Based on the Warrens' principle to work with many different people, Senator Hillary Clinton (Democrat, New York) spoke in person at the Summit on Thursday, in which she said that Aids was a "plague of biblical proportions".

She called for $50bn to work towards prevention, and provide treatment and care to Aids sufferers around the world.

Fellow presidential contenders Senator Barack Obama (Democrato, Illinois), former Senator John Edwards (Democrat, North Carolina), former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, Senator John McCain (Republican, Arizona.), and former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney will appear via satellite.

Following the Global Summit, the first-ever Youth Summit will take place on Saturday, December 1 - World AIDS Day - with video messages from rock star Bono, pop artist Jordan Pruitt and the cast of TV show "One Tree Hill", and a personal appearance by US First Daughter Jenna Bush. This portion of the summit will be simulcast to more than 200 churches across the US.

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
He has made anti-Semitic, anti-Catholic, anti-non-Evangelical Christian and anti-gay comments (and was one of the main players in the push for Prop 8), he trash-talked Obama after that Saddleback Faith Forum charade, he's anti-choice and doesn't want women in faith leadership positions.

Such negative views you have; it should be pro-non-semitic, pro-Protestant, pro-non Evangelical Christian, pro-straight, pro-McCain, pro-life and pro-men in faith leadership positions. See, it doesn't look half that bad...

Pro-protestant sounds funny.

[GePap]

Originally posted by MrFun




There is nothing moderate/centrist about Warren.

Sadly, yes there is. His views on gay marriage are the mainstream.

[RGBVideo]

Originally posted by Elok


...in the USA at least

in the world

the point was: as we can see from a global perspective, christianity isn't inheritly a tool for the political right, as DRose assumes. thus, there can be right-wing and left-wing political pressure groups using christianity as their tool. just because "Moral Majority" was right-wing doesn't mean every christian priest is.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

A majority of Black people I have spoken with on the subject, or a very large plurality, do in fact believe just that. I do not believe it, but given the American government's history, it's not an insane belief.

Yes, it really is, and yes, they really are insane, and moreover they are stupid.

My respect for people who believe that nonsense can be no lower.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MrFun
Dude, you've seen threads and posts where I have talked about the government's deplorable record in dealing with the early AIDS crisis, right??

So you think that's the only opinion Rev. Wright has? Man, you're even stupider than I gave you credit for.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
My respect for people who believe that nonsense can be no lower.

From a purely rational standpoint, a belief in an invisible friend that knows everything and is all powerful and created the entire universe, that loves you but will condemn you to eternal torture for not believing in him ranks much lower than believing that a hostile, oppressive government which has been proven to have carried out biological experiments on an oppressed population is doing so again.

Is is really that difficult to believe that a government which let syphilitic patients go untreated for decades, that sterilized people without their knowledge, that brought drugs into the country which largely ended up in poor neighborhoods, which gave people psychedelic drugs without their knowledge, and which deliberately exposed its own citizens to nuclear radiation without their consent would engage in something so heinous. It's not as if the U.S. hasn't engaged in genocide before.

I don't believe it because I have a skeptical outlook and require actual evidence. The mere fact that the government is capable of doing something like this is not evidence that the government is doing something like this. Then again, if you can get someone to believe in God, you can get them to believe in anything.

[Elok]

Originally posted by MrFun


There is nothing moderate/centrist about Warren.

I'm not necessarily saying there is, though he appears less extreme than most on the right just by opposing gay rights without downright accusing gays of pederasty or satanism (in the links provided; I've done no research of my own).

No, Obama's playing to the center by inviting a popular fellow among the evangelical community to fulfill a symbolic role. Gives him the appearance of open-mindedness or ecumenism or whatever the current euphemism for pandering is when it's done by someone you like. I find it reassuring that he can cater to right-wing nuts in relatively harmless ways. It shows he's not stupid or too blinded by ideology to play politics, which would trouble me a lot more than his neglecting to take a stand for a wedge issue.

Just out of curiosity, has Planned Parenthood expressed concern over Warren?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Elok


I'm not necessarily saying there is, though he appears less extreme than most on the right just by opposing gay rights without downright accusing gays of pederasty or satanism (in the links provided; I've done no research of my own).

Warren has equated granting gays equal marriage protection with also leading toward legalizing pedophilia, thus automatically clumping all gays with pedophiles.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles


So you think that's the only opinion Rev. Wright has? Man, you're even stupider than I gave you credit for.

You're an assh*le.


Can you quote me where I have said that I think this was the only opinion Warren has on anything?

[Elok]

Originally posted by MrFun
Warren has equated granting gays equal marriage protection with also leading toward legalizing pedophilia, thus automatically clumping all gays with pedophiles.

Not precisely, but yes, that is troubling.