Will Supreme Court take case on Obama's citizenship?

[Boris Godunov]

Yes, but those are in cases where a SCOTUS precedent for a ruling would be worthwhile. There isn't any such advantage for them to hear this case.

[Ben Kenobi]

Actually I don't think that parents can irrevocably renounce American citizenship for their children.

That's not the issue. The issue is whether he was 'natural born' or not.

He cannot be considered naturally born unless he is born in the US, or born outside the US to two parents who are American citizens.

Barry's dad is not an American citizen, so if Soetoro was not born in Hawaii, then he is not a natural born American.

If he was born in Kenya, then he would have British citizenship at birth.

He may not even be a citizen. If he was born in Kenya, his mom was too young for citizenship to be automatically transferred. At the time Soetoro was born, she would have needed to be resident in the US at least 5 years after the age of 14. She was too young, when Soetoro was born to transmit citizenship.

If that's the case then Soetoro had Kenyan citizenship at birth, and would not have had American citizenship unless at some point he got naturalized.

I'm fairly certain that a child born to US citizens outside the US, or a child born outside the US to parents of mixed nationality, one being American, the other not, may choose his nationality at 21 years of age.

Nope, that's not how it works.

For that matter, I'm not even sure if it's possible to "naturalize" a child. AFAIK in the US the process only applies to adults. A foreign child adopted by an American automatically becomes naturalized upon entering the country and completing the adoption process. I believe that children born to alien parents who naturalize before the children reach majority also become citizens or have the right to choose at age 21.

That's part of the problem. Soetoro was formally adopted in Indonesia, so he would have had Indonesian citizenship on top of his British citizenship if he was born in Kenya.

In short, if Soetoro was born outside the US, then he's not qualified to be President. Soetoro should show his birth certificate asap, it's a mystery to me why he hasn't.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by TCO
No.

There is no constitutional mechanism for the military to oust a sitting president.

Of course. The executive branch enforces the rulings of the court. Were they to void Barry as Prez, they would (no "guarantee", but my assertion) do so here as well.

If we're at a point where Obama is the Chief Executive, and his loyal and loving supporters are populating the executive branch, who is going to enforce it?

Of course, there is no guarantee. I'm asserting likelihood. Are you asserting the opposite? Care to put money on it?

Sure. 50 billion dollars says that should Obama be determined to have been born in Kenya and is therefore technically ineligible to be POTUS, he'll still maintain enough support to hold onto office.

Whew, I'm going to be sweating this bet for a some time!

[Docfeelgood]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


That's not the issue. The issue is whether he was 'natural born' or not.

He cannot be considered naturally born unless he is born in the US, or born outside the US to two parents who are American citizens.

Barry's dad is not an American citizen, so if Soetoro was not born in Hawaii, then he is not a natural born American.

If he was born in Kenya, then he would have British citizenship at birth.

He may not even be a citizen. If he was born in Kenya, his mom was too young for citizenship to be automatically transferred. At the time Soetoro was born, she would have needed to be resident in the US at least 5 years after the age of 14. She was too young, when Soetoro was born to transmit citizenship.

If that's the case then Soetoro had Kenyan citizenship at birth, and would not have had American citizenship unless at some point he got naturalized.



Nope, that's not how it works.



That's part of the problem. Soetoro was formally adopted in Indonesia, so he would have had Indonesian citizenship on top of his British citizenship if he was born in Kenya.

In short, if Soetoro was born outside the US, then he's not qualified to be President. Soetoro should show his birth certificate asap, it's a mystery to me why he hasn't.

[Ben Kenobi]

There isn't any such advantage for them to hear this case.

If I have to show my birth certificate to the DMV up here, surely Obama can show his to become leader of the free world.

There's this little thing called a Constitution. I don't know why he's been paying money to fight this case, it's simple. All these cases go away the moment he releases his birth certificate.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
In short, if Soetoro was born outside the US, then he's not qualified to be President. Soetoro should show his birth certificate asap, it's a mystery to me why he hasn't.

Obama HAS produced his birth certificate. There are pictures of it all over the place, including this very thread.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
If I have to show my birth certificate to the DMV up here, surely Obama can show his to become leader of the free world.

When was the last time a POTUS was required to produce his birth certificate before assuming office?

He's not getting a license, he's getting a job, and you don't have to show a birth certificate to get a job in the U.S., as there are plenty of other acceptable documents. Passports will suffice (he has that), as will Driver's License + SS Card (he has both). Why not accept those, why create a standard beyond that required by law?

Moreover, the only people he's required to show it to would be whomever completed his federal I-9 form. Birth Certificates are private documents not meant for public display. Just because a bunch of raving lunatics demand to see someone's private information doesn't mean they necessarily should have to provide them.

There's this little thing called a Constitution. I don't know why he's been paying money to fight this case, it's simple. All these cases go away the moment he releases his birth certificate.

Obama isn't a defendant in the suit. Do you have any idea what you're talking about, ever?

[Ramo]

I'm just annoyed at the unnecessarily convoluted strategy the DNC's lawyers chose to take when it would have been quick and easy to win on the factual merits

Every day that the crazies traffic in this nonsense pushes back the day when brown people consider voting Republican. They should be dragging this out as long as possible...

[Ramo]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Not if it comes before the vote of the electoral college.

The electoral college would no longer be bound to vote for Obama (who would be ineligible), nor could they vote for Biden (as he's on as VICE president), on the ballots.

Their choices would be anyone else who is eligible on the ballot, ie McCain.

Nope. Electors can vote for whomever they please. And, incidentally, there is no single ballot on which to base this sort of eligibility.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


There is no constitutional mechanism for the military to oust a sitting president.

------
He's not president, if he doesn't meet the requirements and if the Supreme Court declares him "not prez". He's just a squatter. The White House valet, secret service, and Marine guards can all literally pack his suitcase and kick him out the door. While...Biden gets sworn in.

I mean what if Bush decides that he refuses to relinquish the office in January. Do you think it a coup, if the miltary kicks his ass out?
-----

If we're at a point where Obama is the Chief Executive, and his loyal and loving supporters are populating the executive branch, who is going to enforce it?

-----
You play too much civ. His supporters will drop him like a hot potato. I will literally bet you a large amount of money to that effect.
----


Sure. 50 billion dollars says that should Obama be determined to have been born in Kenya and is therefore technically ineligible to be POTUS, he'll still maintain enough support to hold onto office.

Whew, I'm going to be sweating this bet for a some time!

------
Let's do a $1000 bet, each. Money to be put in money market under control of fair third party. Whoever is right in the event gets the entire account. If he is not shown to be from Kenya, during the bet, we split the account when Obama leaves office.
------

[Ben Kenobi]

When was the last time a POTUS was required to produce his birth certificate before assuming office?

McCain did.

He's not getting a license, he's getting a job, and you don't have to show a birth certificate to get a job in the U.S., as there are plenty of other acceptable documents.

You are seriously making this argument? You have to have one to get a job with the Obama administration.

Can you say 'hypocrite'? Yes you can!

Passports will suffice (he has that), as will Driver's License + SS Card (he has both).

American passport? No, it won't. You can easily get an American passport without having been naturally born. Naturalization is all that's needed.

Why not accept those, why create a standard beyond that required by law?

The constitution states that the law is clear, that only those naturally born in the United States of America can be president. It's a bit more of a strenuous standard then flipping burgers at the Mickey D.

Obama isn't a defendant in the suit. Do you have any idea what you're talking about, ever?

Which suit? There's about 5,6,7 of them and they will all go away once Obama puts out his birth certificate. His full one, not the Certificate of Live Birth.

[Boris Godunov]

Fix your quoting, TCO, so I can reply properly.

[TCO]

I'm not good at that Libertarian style cut and pasting. Just reply in numbered paras.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
McCain did.

McCain was required to present his birth certificate? By whom?

And that's not an answer to my question, since McCain has never been POTUS, nor ever will bw.

You are seriously making this argument? You have to have one to get a job with the Obama administration.

Can you say 'hypocrite'? Yes you can!

No, you don't:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/national/13apply_questionnaire.pdf

There's no reference to identification documents there at all. Furthermore, since there isn't a requirement to be a natural-born citizen to be in the administration, such a requirement wouldn't make sense anyway.

American passport? No, it won't. You can easily get an American passport without having been naturally born. Naturalization is all that's needed.

A valid point, but my point still stands that Obama's not required to show his Birth Certificate to any of the people who have filed suit.

The constitution does not state that a candidate has to do X,Y, and Z to prove his citizenship. If the State of Hawaii confirms they have a birth certificate on file for him, as they have, there's nothing more that needs to be done.

Which suit? There's about 5,6,7 of them and they will all go away once Obama puts out his birth certificate. His full one, not the Certificate of Live Birth.

The one being considered by the SCOTUS is the only one in question here, and that was brought against the SoS of New Jersey, IIRC. In fact, I think all of these frivolous suits have been brought against state election officials, not Obama.

As usual, your blame is misplaced. You should be angry and the idiots wasting the courts' time and resources with these meritless cases.

[Docfeelgood]

The obedient denial of some to question the requirements of the holder of the highest office in this country really scares me.