Massive Terract campaign in India

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

I doubt that there's any city in the world able to field that many urban assault specialists at a moment's notice

The ESU of the NYPD fields over 400 men.

So don't be ridiculous.

I wonder how many they had before Homeland Security subsidies? Also consider the fact that whereas few of Mumbai's criminals carry firearms, virtually all of NYC's criminals pack heat.

[KrazyHorse]

Doc, if they don't have sufficient police then they should station army units nearby.

They need more people who aren't afraid to rush gunmen while they're busy sitting in a hotel plunking away at hostages.

[TCO]

Columbine was screwed up because the regular police did not enter as executions were occurring. Waiting for SWAT. This tact has now changed. BTW, my training for ship's defensxe force (I was NWSO and the division officer in charge of all small arms) was that you stormed entry if hostages started getting shot (preferablly from both sides).

[TCO]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Doc, if they don't have sufficient police then they should station army units nearby.

They need more people who aren't afraid to rush gunmen while they're busy sitting in a hotel plunking away at hostages.

They should have used regular police forces for the main response and TU to the extent they had them. but imagine even a situation with not SWAT. You wouldf still respond.

[Elok]

Originally posted by GePap
Judaism is a community faith as much as an individual one. In that way it is very different from Christianity, and like Islam.

If Judaism grew up out of power, it still remembered being in power, in having kings and temples. That part of Judaism hasn't gone away, even if reality made it irrelevant. Christianity never had that.

Threadjack or not, this is ridiculously inaccurate. You can fill in your own sarcastic rejoinder, you're a bright boy.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Elok


Threadjack or not, this is ridiculously inaccurate. You can fill in your own sarcastic rejoinder, you're a bright boy.

Judaism is identified with both the people and the homeland of Jews. I think it is more an us versus them religion rather than a proslyetyzing one and catholic one. Sort of like the Druze.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by TCO


They should have used regular police forces for the main response and TU to the extent they had them. but imagine even a situation with not SWAT. You wouldf still respond.

You would think, yes.

My point is that it seems like there was a lot of "surround and wait". While people are dying.

And it went on for TWO AND A HALF DAYS.

That is just pathetic.

[Elok]

I don't contest that. What I contest is GePap's continuing and ridiculous assertion that Christianity (presumptively he's not just referring to modern Protestants) is not a "community" faith, combined with the bizarre notion that it never had the glory days Judaism got. Quick: explain how Charlemagne beating the snot out of the Saxons to make them renounce Thor is totally different from Joshua conquering Canaan. Also, distinguish Hagia Sophia and St. Peter's from Solomon's Temple.

EDIT: xpost, in case it isn't obvious.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
My point is that it seems like there was a lot of "surround and wait". While people are dying.

I haven't heard that people continued to die during the "surround and wait" phase.

I have heard that police officers were shot through their "bulletproof" vests. I've also heard that the police, the military and even the commandoes were under equipped and under trained. Plus, Mumbai's anti-terrorist squad was decapitated at the beginning of the raid.

[TCO]

"bulletproof vests" will only stop handgun bullets or shrapnel. You need a special insert (in US called SAPI and made from ceramic, but there are other vartieties) to stop the rifle bullets. This is not part of a normal polieman's outfit, but arguably SWAT forces should be issued them.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
I have heard that police officers were shot through their "bulletproof" vests. I've also heard that the police, the military and even the commandoes were under equipped and under trained. Plus, Mumbai's anti-terrorist squad was decapitated at the beginning of the raid.

TWO AND A HALF DAYS

They could have flown in thousands of soldiers from across India within 12 hours.

The security response was pathetically slow and ineffectual.

[KrazyHorse]

Seriously, every policeman in Mumbai should hang their head in shame over this. They got their asses handed to them by 20 guys with Kalashnikovs.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by TCO
"bulletproof vests" will only stop handgun bullets or shrapnel. You need a special insert (in US called SAPI and made from ceramic, but there are other vartieties) to stop the rifle bullets. This is not part of a normal polieman's outfit, but arguably SWAT forces should be issued them.

All that and the SAPI plate is only good for a single round from an AK-47. The kevlar mat under the SAPI plate is only good for 9mm or shrapnel. They will deflect glancing shots though. The damn things are a pain in the ass to wear for not a lot of protection.

[TCO]

E-SAPI stops 2 shots and X-SAPI stops 3 shots.

[TCO]

Here is a news story with some criticism of the tactics. My training on hostage situations, was that if the situation was fluid and/or shots being fired, you go in fast from multiple directions. This is common sense. A standoff is a different situation. But this was never that. Can't use the tactics for a standoff, when the situation is fluid as here or as at Columbine.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081130/ap_on_re_as/as_india_shooting