Can we defeat homosexuality?

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by MrFun
Asher and Comrade do not realize that their atheistic bigotry of Christians is just as bad as religious-right wing bigotry of atheists.

Agreed.

Ironically some Jehovah's Witnesses just stopped by my house a second ago. But I didn't slam the door on them, I talked to them for a bit about hell & forgiveness and such. It was interesting. I'm certainly not a Jehovah's Witness and have no interest in ever converting, but I'm an open minded kinda guy and don't mind some interesting discussion. That's all an aside though.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Nikolai
Slowly I understood what the Bible said. I didn't like it. I still don't. But I believe God's word is true. It tells me that it is a sin , and it tells me I am to love and respect others, even if they hate me. It's hard, both to accept the first and to practice the latter. But I will try. My belief is not an excuse. It's my life.

The bible doesn't refer to homosexuality as far as I know. It just has to be a big problem for a lot of fundamentalist Christians like yourself.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Asher
So, you can call this bigotry if you want. I'm not up for taking away Christian rights as most Christians are in favour of taking away gay rights, so spare me your Draaamaaaa.

Once again, not all Christians are Jerry Falwell. Even the more literalist types like Nikolai don't favor taking away equal rights. That's the whole "love the sinner, hate the sin" thing that you despise. But even that doesn't speak for the many, many liberal Christians out there.

Falwell isn't any *more* of a Christian than Mr. Fun or I. So spare us your bigotry.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Asher


No, Christianity is very clear on its stance on homosexuality. Anyone who is both Christian and Gay is either naive, delusional, or simply crazy.

Note that these are traits common with Christians to begin with.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


Once again, not all Christians are Jerry Falwell. Even the more literalist types like Nikolai don't favor taking away equal rights. That's the whole "love the sinner, hate the sin" thing that you despise. But even that doesn't speak for the many, many liberal Christians out there.

Falwell isn't any *more* of a Christian than Mr. Fun or I. So spare us your bigotry.

Yes, Falwell and his cronies spoil everything for you guys, really sad. So why don't you all join the crusade against fundamentalism

[Asher]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Once again, not all Christians are Jerry Falwell.

Never said they were. They don't have to be Jerry Fallwell to be evil.

Look at 52% of California's voters! CALIFORNIA, even.

Falwell isn't any *more* of a Christian than Mr. Fun or I. So spare us your bigotry.

Spare me your stupidity. I never once mentioned Falwell. Read what I write for once.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Asher

Never said they were. They don't have to be Jerry Fallwell to be evil.

Look at 52% of California's voters! CALIFORNIA, even.


Spare me your stupidity. I never once mentioned Falwell. Read what I write for once.

You didn't say Falwell. You just said stupid **** like ALL Christians this, or MOST Christians that. Maybe you should produce some polling data before you start talking out of your ass again.

And you think all those 52% were Christian or were motivated by Christian reasons for opposition? I'm guessing those 52%, and others like them around the country, are conservatives first and Christians second. Just because prejudice exists you can't lay it all at the doorstep of a religion you happen to not like.

[Asher]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
You didn't say Falwell. You just said stupid **** like ALL Christians this, or MOST Christians that. Maybe you should produce some polling data before you start talking out of your ass again.

A majority of Christians in your country do not support equal rights for gays.

So spare me your bull****. I'm no Christian, I don't buy into bull**** on faith.

And don't pretend Christianity's stance on homosexuality has no impact at all on the stance of Christians against homosexuals.

If you want stats:

The Moral Issues and Catholic Voters poll found a distinct difference between practicing and non-practicing Catholics. 46% of non-practicing Catholics, for example, believe same-sex couples should be allowed to legally “marry,” compared to only 22% of practicing Catholics. The differences, I suspect, would be much different if practicing Catholics were considered to be those who abide by the Church’s precept of weekly attendance at Mass.

[TCO]

I thought gay men didn't want to get married. They just wanted to philander in the bathhouses.

[TCO]

besides, if it's ok for two guys to be married, why not two guys and a girl? Or a guy and two girls. At least they can procreate.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Asher

A majority of Christians in your country do not support equal rights for gays.

So spare me your bull****. I'm no Christian, I don't buy into bull**** on faith.

And don't pretend Christianity's stance on homosexuality has no impact at all on the stance of Christians against homosexuals.

If you want stats:

The Moral Issues and Catholic Voters poll found a distinct difference between practicing and non-practicing Catholics. 46% of non-practicing Catholics, for example, believe same-sex couples should be allowed to legally “marry,” compared to only 22% of practicing Catholics. The differences, I suspect, would be much different if practicing Catholics were considered to be those who abide by the Church’s precept of weekly attendance at Mass.

Since "equal rights" only seems to mean "marriage" and nothing else. Lets take a look around the world to find some more evil, gay-hating, intolerant sonsof*****es.

Sweden doesn't have gay marriage, and oh, only 23% of them believe in God. In France, only 34% believe in god, oops, no gay marriage there either. In the Czech Republic only 19% believe in God, surely they are the best example for tolerance and acceptance of gay rights. Ah darn, no gay marriage there.

What about crazy religious countries like Spain? Damn, 59% of those hateful ****ers believe in God. Surely they've started up the inquisition again, right? Oh, darn, they actually have legalized gay marriage.

You're right though, overall, the US is more hostile to gay marriage than Europe overall. But the US, overall, is more conservative than Europe. Atheists, Christians, Jews, or whatever, our politics are just different here. Religion or faith doesn't seem to be the best determiner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Europe

[Asher]

I'm not sure what your point is, aside from spamming?

The fact is, Christianity -- as a whole -- is very much against gay rights. It is a force of evil in this world that has done nothing but set back social progress and provide an easy excuse to go to war.

Feel free to quote more statistics about ****ing Sweden, but excuse me while I ignore you while you flounder and try to distract me.

[OzzyKP]

[TCO]

Originally posted by Asher
I'm not sure what your point is, aside from spamming?

The fact is, Christianity -- as a whole -- is very much against gay rights. It is a force of evil in this world that has done nothing but set back social progress and provide an easy excuse to go to war.

Fugging love to spam.

And I think "They are" instead of "It is", would be correct pronoun refernce. Although, you might think of the rights collectively as a single concept.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
As I said, the reason to be a Christian is because you recognize you are a sinner (in the western view). If you don't recognize you do wrong, then you don't need a savior.

If I do recognize I do wrong, why do I need a savior? Why shouldn't I merely seek forgiveness from those I've wronged, rather than from a figure whose existence is in doubt?

Now, God is a bit of a different issue. You can worship Him because He is God.

Insufficient condition.

You can worship Him because He is good.

Insufficient proof of this assertion.

You can worship Him because He blesses you. But as far as this goes, there is no difference between Jew or Christian (or even Muslim?).

Insufficient proof that the blessings and benedictions mean anything.

It's not God's proclamations, it is reality.

Insufficient proof to assert this without doubt.

The issue is that we are sinful, and can't recongize it or see through to what the results are of our choices. So we can't always see that something we do is bad. Now, almost all of us can see that raping a little girl is bad, whether we are Christian or Buddist or Atheist. But just because it is an easy question and other questions are hard questions doesn't mean that the hard questions don't have answers.

Morality does not require religion.

God's followers have done a lot of good as well as evil. But I agree, people have been terrible over all of recorded history. And I am one of them, and that is why I need a savior.

I, too, am one of them.

I do not understand why I need an external, inhuman savior.

If you want to see if following Christ is worth while, then I encourage you to do so for a while.

I did. I found it unsatisfactory.

And just because someone says that they are a hero and a good guy, and then goes about murdering and raping, doesn't mean that being a hero or a good guy is evil or terrible. It just means that the person is a liar.

This, then, suggests to me that the deity found in the holy books is not quite straight with those who worship it.