Can we defeat homosexuality?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MrFun
Asher and Comrade do not realize that their atheistic bigotry of Christians is just as bad as religious-right wing bigotry of atheists.

Of course we don't see that, because we understand math. The bigotry of the 85% of the population that calls itself Christian greatly outweighs any bigotry that the 3% of atheists have. Also, unlike Christians, atheists are hardly in a position to do anything with their bigotry. So, while having faith is considered something of great respect in our culture, and no one could be elected President of the U.S. without openly being a Christian, atheists rate lower than used car salesmen on trustworthiness as far as most people are concerned, and no open atheist could ever be elected to any high office.

Yeah, we're just as bad. Go **** your self-righteous ass.

[Boris Godunov]

I'm not aware of any atheist-led effort to legally prevent Christians from marrying who'd they like to marry, either.

In the meantime, some Christians are trying to have their religious beliefs taught as science in public schools, have their religious dogma enshrined as law, etc.

Sure, real balance there.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by onodera
My thread has been occupied by Christians.

Actually it's been taken over by Christian-bashing gays, which is remarkable considering it was started by a gay-bashing Ruskie atheist.

I'm not jumping into this cluster-f**k since we Anglican/Episcopalian types tend to get s**t upon by both camps, the "evangelicals" and the gays, the later being somewhat mindboggling considering the a**-raping we've taken recently on behalf of the gays.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Actually it's been taken over by Christian-bashing gays, which is remarkable considering it was started by a gay-bashing Ruskie atheist.

I'm not jumping into this cluster-f**k since we Anglican/Episcopalian types tend to get s**t upon by both camps, the "evangelicals" and the gays, the later being somewhat mindboggling considering the a**-raping we've taken recently on behalf of the gays.

Good call, Doc. I guess maybe they think the Episcopals should not only have gay bishops but have every last one of you support the idea of gay bishops? My best guess.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I'm not aware of any atheist-led effort to legally prevent Christians from marrying who'd they like to marry, either.

In the meantime, some Christians are trying to have their religious beliefs taught as science in public schools, have their religious dogma enshrined as law, etc.

Sure, real balance there.

I detest religious-inspired bigotry just as much as you do.

But I also appreciate the diversity within Christianity. Churches and religious-based organizations range along the whole spectrum, from far right wing to the far left wing.

The fact that so many Americans have religious-based homophobia does not undo my own postive, humane faith in God and Jesus Christ. I embrace the messages of love and looking out for the unfortunate and downtrodden, not the hateful messages of religious far-right.

Here in Washington DC for instance, someone mentioned that our Metropolitan Community Church is not attracting as many younger gay and lesbian people now, and one of those reasons is because more churches in other denominations in Washington DC are positively welcoming gays and lesbians.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by TCO
I think it's unfortnate that gays are still ostracized as taboo. They are human beings too. That said, I don't get the whole marriage thing.

Because a number of gay men and lesbians want to marry to reinforce their long-term commitment and love to one another while also enjoying the more than one thousand benefits and privileges that go with legally-recognized marriage.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Nikolai


From the top of my head, Romans 1.

Okay then, now I know.

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

This is pretty awful stuff really.

I believe this part is referring to Sodom and Gomorra because the context is about God's wrath against mankind, but I'm not sure. (I know it's Paul, but it's sort of a similar chain of thought)

Either way the logic is flawed. The text equates homosexuals with heathen dogs. It's well known people (and especially Romans and Greeks in particular) in the classical times indulged in homosexual activity, but saying all those evildoers are gay is crazy talk. And what about the Jews (or later Christians) with gay tendencies then. They are also heathens who worshiped false idols?

And even then God is a bastard for giving the heathens over in the sinful desires of manlove. And that's not all. According to God they are murderers, deceivers, liars and what not. I don't even know what other proof we need to discard the entire 'vengeful God' concept, and any christian in my presence who refers to the bible when talking about homosexuality will get *****slapped in the face by me.

Now I know that the vengeful God has been replaced and transplanted with other, usually more abstract versions of God.

Still, for me the bible will primarily remain a view on the ancient world, and that has its merits too. But like many Muslims use the Qur'an to shape their views, so do many Christians unfortunately. And Nikolai I hope your faith is not based on these elements in the bible.

[Jon Miller]

I don't think you understand that passage at all Traianvs, I would recommend reading more of Paul and understanding what his point is.

Hint: It has nothing to do with Sodom and Gomorra.

JM

[Asher]

Originally posted by Elok


Good call, Doc. I guess maybe they think the Episcopals should not only have gay bishops but have every last one of you support the idea of gay bishops? My best guess.

If they support gay marriage, then good on them.

Given the **** Dr. S has said about homosexuality on this site before, I doubt it.

[Asher]

Originally posted by MrFun


I detest religious-inspired bigotry just as much as you do.

But I also appreciate the diversity within Christianity.

The diversity within Christianity is also why it's exceptionally absurd. Has anyone ever thought to think that at most one sect of Christianity is right? The chances are exceptionally high you are wasting your time with your faith as you know it.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Actually it's been taken over by Christian-bashing gays, which is remarkable considering it was started by a gay-bashing Ruskie atheist.

I'm not jumping into this cluster-f**k since we Anglican/Episcopalian types tend to get s**t upon by both camps, the "evangelicals" and the gays, the later being somewhat mindboggling considering the a**-raping we've taken recently on behalf of the gays.

Come back to the true Church.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Asher


The diversity within Christianity is also why it's exceptionally absurd. Has anyone ever thought to think that at most one sect of Christianity is right? The chances are exceptionally high you are wasting your time with your faith as you know it.

Most sects of Christianity feel that all sects will be saved (now).

JM

[Asher]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


Most sects of Christianity feel that all sects will be saved (now).

JM

Exhibit B for why Christianity is absurd. Their beliefs radically and subtly change over time. You were wrong all the times before, but you're right now? Until they change again in the future.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Actually it's been taken over by Christian-bashing gays, which is remarkable considering it was started by a gay-bashing Ruskie atheist.

I'm not jumping into this cluster-f**k since we Anglican/Episcopalian types tend to get s**t upon by both camps, the "evangelicals" and the gays, the later being somewhat mindboggling considering the a**-raping we've taken recently on behalf of the gays.

I don't criticize Christians as a gay person, I criticize all theism as an atheist.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by MrFun
I detest religious-inspired bigotry just as much as you do.

Right, but my point was that the assertion that the supposed atheist bigotry against religious people is anywhere near the magnitude of religiously-inspired bigotry against--well, the many things they hate--is absurd. By sheer numbers alone, we know this to not be the case. Atheists as a constituency exert close to zero power in U.S. politics, as most people still look at atheists as objects of mistrust and hatred.

It's mainstream Christian theology that atheists will burn in hell for all Eternity. How can atheists compete with that?