Some post-election thoughts

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

FYI Ben, there are a LOT of pro-life Democrats, and there are plenty of pro-choice Republicans.

Name one.

Umm...

http://www.democratsforlife.org/about_us

http://www.gopchoice.org/about_us.asp

[DinoDoc]

Pwnd!

[Darius871]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Pwnd!

By less than one minute? And at least I had the foresight to link to the "about us" sections - you know damn well that Ben won't bother making two clicks to discover inconvenient facts...

[Darius871]

Oh BTW Ben in case you try to weasel out of it by saying you meant prominent politicians and not private citizens like those two massive groups, then I raise you pro-life Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and pro-choice Republican Presidential Candidate Rudy Giuliani, among many others.

[Ben Kenobi]

Harry Reid is prolife?



And yes, I'm well away of the pro choice republicans.

[Ben Kenobi]

Rated 50% by the NRLC, indicating a mixed record on abortion.

Reid scores 50% by the NRLC on abortion issues
OnTheIssues.org interprets the 2006 NRLC scores as follows:

0% - 15%: pro-choice stance (approx. 174 members)
16%- 84%: mixed record on abortion (approx. 101 members)
85%-100%: pro-life stance (approx. 190 members)
About the NRLC (from their website, www.nrlc.org):
The ultimate goal of the National Right to Life Committee is to restore legal protection to innocent human life. The primary interest of the National Right to Life Committee and its members has been the abortion controversy; however, it is also concerned with related matters of medical ethics which relate to the right to life issues of euthanasia and infanticide. The Committee does not have a position on issues such as contraception, sex education, capital punishment, and national defense. The National Right to Life Committee was founded in 1973 in response to the Roe vs. Wade Supreme Court decision, legalizing the practice of human abortion in all 50 states, throughout the entire nine months of pregnancy.

The NRLC has been instrumental in achieving a number of legislative reforms at the national level, including a ban on non-therapeutic experimentation of unborn and newborn babies, a federal conscience clause guaranteeing medical personnel the right to refuse to participate in abortion procedures, and various amendments to appropriations bills which prohibit (or limit) the use of federal funds to subsidize or promote abortions in the United States and overseas.

In addition to maintaining a lobbying presence at the federal level, NRLC serves as a clearinghouse of information for its state affiliates and local chapters, its individual members, the press, and the public.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Harry Reid is prolife?

Well, at least he very publicly purports to be...

Senator Reid, reflecting a pro-life view, believes in a heavily restricted right to abortion. He stated in a 1998 National Political Awareness Test that he believed "Abortions should be legal only when the pregnancy resulted from incest, rape, or when the life of the woman is endangered."[10] In 1999, he voted against an amendment that explicitly expressed support for Roe v. Wade.[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_R..._Supreme_Court

But even if he's a filthy liar, you only said "name one" so I named one. If you really need more examples, go straight to the website DD and I posted earlier:

Democrats For Life of America Announce Endorsed Candidates

Washington, DC - October 22, 2008 - Democrats For Life of America is proud to announce our endorsements for the U.S Senate and House. Pro-life Democrats are pulling up in the polls in both the federal and state level. We are proud of the candidates listed below and are confident that they will all work hard to promote and pass legislation that will protect life at all stages. Importantly, we hope they will swell the ranks of our current pro-life members who are so dedicated to protecting pro-life issues in the Congress including Congressmen Altmire, Berry, Boren, Costello, Cuellar, Davis, Donnelly, Ellsworth, Holden, Kildee, Lipinski, Marshall, McIntyre, Melancon, Mollohan, Murtha, Oberstar, Ortiz, Peterson, Rahall, Skelton, Shuler, Stupak, Taylor and Wilson.
US Senate - Ronnie Musgrove (MS) (DFLA Priority Candidate)


Mississippi Governor since 2000, Ronnie Musgrove now challenges Republican Roger Wicker, who assumed Republican Trent Lott's Senate seat when he resigned in December 2007. There is no clear favorite in this race. Musgrove's statewide recognition could be the key to removing this seat from the Republicans. Also, his strong pro-life record will help in this pro-life state. As a State Senator, he supported a 24-hour waiting period before a women could obtain an abortion and to require those performing more than 5 abortions a month to be licensed as abortion clinics. As Governor of Mississippi, Musgrove signed a bill to ban public funding of abortion. He would be a welcome addition to the U.S. Senate for pro-lifeDemocraticSenators Ben Nelson and Bob Casey.

U.S. House Races
Bobby Bright (AL-02, open seat) DFLA Priority Candidate!
Bobby Bright was elected Mayor of the City of Montgomery, Alabama in 1999 and has been re-elected twice. He now challenges Republican candidate Jay Love for the 2nd Congressional District seat of retiring Republican Terry Everett. Although Love has a small lead in the polls, Bright could be the Democrat to challenge the area's Republican tradition. A poll that John Anzalone conducted for Bright's campaign shows that he has a strong lead among independents (51% to 37%). He has the support of the fiscally conservative Democratic Blue Dog Coalition and has made financial security a core feature of his campaign.

Parker Griffith (AL-05, open seat) (DFLA endorsed)
With Democrat Robert E. "Bud" Cramer retiring from the 5th Congressional District, pro-life Democrat Parker Griffith hopes to defeat Republican challenger Wayne Parker and keep the district Democratic. Griffith has the advantage of Cramer's popularity and Parker's previous failed attempts in 1994 and 1996 to gain the seat. The race is close in funding and polling, with no clear lead. A former teacher and now a medical doctor, Griffith has the support of Alabama's State Fraternal Order of Police and the testimony of dozens of former patients. He says he is pro-life because as a doctor he has spent his "entire career as North Alabama's first Radiation Oncologist trying to saves lives" and he "understands how precious life is."

Doug Heckman (GA-07) (DFLA endorsed)
Doug Heckman challenges incumbent Republican Rep. John Linder for Georgia's 7th Congressional District seat. Linder has held that position since 1992. Doug, a West Point graduate, currently serves as a special forces colonel in the U.S. Army Reserves. He was endorsed by General Wesley Clark.

Mike Montagano (IN-03) (DFLA endorsed)
Although earlier polls favor incumbent Republican Rep. Mark Souder to win Indiana's 3rd Congressional District, recent news that most undecided voters do not identify as Republican is good news for challenger Mike Montagano. Montagano recently aired a commercial (which can be viewed here) where he explicitly highlights his pro-life beliefs. For that reason, he is faring well against the Republican candidate. Increasing name-recognition and advertising will be key as the election draws near. Recent polls put him within 5 points of the Republican incumbent, a gap that can easily be closed.

David Boswell (KY-02, open seat) DFLA Priority Candidate!
After more than 30 years of public service, State Senator David Boswell of Owensboro, Kentucky is running for the open seat of retiring Republican Representative Ron Lewis of Congressional District 2. In addition to a good reputation and the respect of State Senators from both parties, Boswell enjoys strong support from his own party, having won all 21 counties in the primary. Kentucky has a long Democratic tradition, and in 2007 Democrat Steve Beshear defeated incumbent Republican Ernie Fletcher to become governor. In a campaign poll conducted October 8-9, Boswell maintained a small lead over opponent Brett Guthrie (41% to 40%). As for voter perceptions of the candidates, Boswell has a significant advantage: more than two-to-one voters who know Boswell view him positively, whereas Guthrie's margin is barely favorable. The Boswell campaign considers him "poised to win" with "solid prospects of victory."

John Milkovich (LA-04, open seat) (DFLA Endorsed)
Sadly, DFLA-endorsed John Milkovich has dropped out of the Democratic primary race for Louisiana's 4th Congressional District. Runoff elections will take place on November 4th for a general election on December 6th. Paul Carmouche leads with 48% over Willie Banks at 23%. Both pro-life Democrats, the winner will face either John Fleming or Chris Gorman on the Republican ticket in a district that has favored Republicans. May the best pro-life Democrat win!

Don Cazayoux (LA-06) (DLFA endorsed)
Pro-life Democrat Don Cazayoux won a May 3, 2008 special election to gain Louisiana's 6th Congressional District. In the conservative-leaning Baton Rouge area, Cazayoux was a strong candidate in part because of his economic platform and his pro-life committment. A Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee poll conducted October 8-9 shows Cazayoux with a lead of 46% compared to Republican challenger state Sen. Bill Cassidy's 29% and independent state Rep. Michael Jackson's 9%. Jackson lost to Cazayoux in the Democratic primary and poses a threat to securing the vote of African Americans, who represent one-third of district residents. Cazayoux will need to emphasize his approval ratings and performance this year to beat Cassidy's strong campaign and minimize Jackson's impact.

Joseph Larkin (MI-11) (DFLA Endoresed)
Lawyer Joseph Larkin faces incumbent Republican Thaddeus McCotter, who has represented Michigan's 11th Congressional District since 2002. Although McCotter is confident that he will win, Larkin has the support of several workers' associations. Larkin also supports term limitations and advocates a "citizen Congress" rather than career politicians.

Travis Childers (MS-01) (DFLA endorsed)
In a surprise win May 13, Travis Childers won a special election to replace Republican Rep. Roger Wickers in representing the 1st Congressional District of Mississippi. Since then, Childers' rating among voters has remained strong. He defeated Republican Mayor of Southaven Greg Davis in May by eight points and is poised to defeat him again. Thus far, Davis has been unable to convince voters to return the seat to Republican representation in a race that now leans Democratic.

Jim Esch (NE-02) DFLA Priority Candidate!
In his second run for political office, pro-life Democrat Jim Esch is challenging Republican incumbent Lee Terry to represent Nebraska's 2nd Congressional District. The district includes the core of the Omaha metropolitan area, Nebraska's Democratic base and home to three-fourths of the state's growing African American population. In the 2006 Senate race, pro-life Democratic Senator Ben Nelson won the District's Douglas County by over 30%, a good sign for Esch. An Anzalone-Liszt poll conducted October 13-15 shows Esch and Terry in a dead heat, with Terry's approval rating in decline. Esch leads 51% to 41% with voters who have not registered with either party. Although the district has leaned Republican in the past, the margin of support for Republicans has diminished, and polls reveal a close Presidential race. High voter turnout could swing this district blue.

Steve Driehaus (OH-01) DFLA Priority Candidate!
After three terms as a moderate Democrat in the Ohio House, Steve Driehaus is running against 1st Congressional District incumbent Republican Steve Chabot. Although Chabot has already served seven terms, his win in 2006 was his narrowest. The current political environment strongly favors Democrats, and high spending from both campaigns demonstrates that this race is tight. Driehaus emphasizes his fiscal conservatism and his previous efforts in the state legislature to address the foreclosure crisis. An independent Research 2000 poll shows Driehaus with a 46% to 44% lead against Chabot. A greater turnout among Democratic voters during this year's presidential election could be the boost Driehaus needs to end Chabot's tenure.

Bill O'Neill (OH-14) (DFLA endorsed)
Although Republican Steven C. LaTourette survived his party's battering in 2006, in Bill O'Neill he faces the toughest challenge in his seven terms as Representative of Ohio's 14th Congressional District. O'Neill is a former state appellate judge, a nurse on weekends and evenings, and a single father who has raised his four children since their mother's death in an automobile accident in 1995. LaTourette is favored, but O'Neill has raised more money than previous Democratic opponents. He could pull of a victory.

Kathy Dahlkemper (PA-03) DFLA Priority Candidate!
Republican incumbent Phil English is running for an eighth term in Pennsylvania's 3rd Congressional District. After a mediocre win against a weak candidate during his last race, Democrats have high hopes that English's days representing Erie and greater northwestern Pennsylvania are numbered. Dahlkemper has proven her commitment to improving the industrial region's economy, earning an endorsement from Erie's General Electric Union and many other unions and workers' organizations. Union representatives have spoken out in support of Dahlkemper and against English's poor record on trade, wages, and other issues relevant to workers. The numbers testify to Dahlkemper's strength: an independent Research 2000 poll from October 6-8 showed her leading with 48% to English's 41%, with even greater support for Dahlkemper (57% to 31%) in English's home base of Erie County. With a mid-month endorsement from fellow Democrat Senator Robert Casey, Jr., Dahlkemper's victory is in sight.

http://www.democratsforlife.org/inde...=172&Itemid=54

Pro-Choice Republicans (Not Counting Men)
U.S. SENATE
U.S. Sen. Susan Collins (Maine)* NRLC RATING: 0.0%

U.S. House of Representatives
U.S. Rep. Judy Biggert (IL-13)*
U.S. Rep. Mary Bono (CA-45)*
U.S. Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite (FL-5)*
U.S. Rep. Shelley Moore Capito (WV-2)*
U.S. Rep. Kay Granger (TX-12)*
Joyce Stoer Cordi, U.S. House Candidate (CA-15)
Lynn Jenkins, U.S. House Candidate (KS-2)
Marina Kats, U.S. House Candidate (PA-13)

http://www.thewishlist.org/2007-2008_Candidates.htm

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
And yes, I'm well away of the pro choice republicans.

Why ask "name one" if you're "well awa[re]" of them? What was the point of your challenge?

I also find it convenient that you simply ignore the existence of massive special-interest groups representing pro-life Democrats and pro-choice Republicans. You said "name one," and in response to that we gave you groups which represent thousands of citizens fitting those descriptions and endorse dozens of candidates fitting those descriptions. What more do you want? Or did you just not have a point?

[Ben Kenobi]

My point, and I thought I was crystal clear is that the policy of the democrat party is staunchly pro abortion.

So it's no benefit to the republicans to try to out pro abortion the dems.

But even if he's a filthy liar, you only said "name one" so I named one. If you really need more examples, go straight to the website DD and I posted earlier:

Harry Reid is a filthy liar.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
My point, and I thought I was crystal clear...

Nothing is crystal clear when you say "name one" about something of which there are dozens of examples in national politics and millions of adherents in the populace, as if that was supposed to stump somebody. Sure they represent the minority view in their respective parties, but that says more about the local popularity of individual personalities, greater salience of some issues than other issues in the minds of voters, and/or adaptation to particular constituencies than it does about whether this party or that party has a monolithic stance, or whether it should.

In conclusion, welcome to ignore.

[-Jrabbit]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

How are you disenfranchised? You've made the decision not to join a party, so why should you get to have any say as to who each party appoints? If you want to have a say as to who the Republicans appoint, then join the Republican party. [QUOTE]
Guess what -- I'm not! I vote in whichever primary offers a candidate that I feel is important to support. The system works just fine.

Obviously. I don't see what self styled 'independents', ie Democrats have anything to say about what strategies the Republicans should use in the next election.

I have never voted straight ticket in my life. I study the candidates and decide which I prefer. I certainly deserve a say in the primaries, when choices are maximized.

You are, of course, aware of the fact that crossover voting is a technique commonly used by both parties. When Bush basically ran unopposed in 2004, there was a lot of GOP crossover in Dem primaries. It's a two-way street.

You've called me narrow minded and a carpetbagger. Got any more names?

Narrow-minded is an accurate description based on your posts. Your inability to accept opposing views, even when factually pwnd, is fairly legendary.
Carpetbagger, while not historically accurate, simply points out your Canadian residence.
One-trick-pony accurately reflects your single-issue approach to politics.

If you choose to view this as "name-calling," so be it. Poly has a procedure for dealing with such things.

[Ben Kenobi]

In conclusion, welcome to ignore.

Umm ok.



I don't see how that's constructive at all.

[Ben Kenobi]

I have never voted straight ticket in my life. I study the candidates and decide which I prefer. I certainly deserve a say in the primaries, when choices are maximized.

Then why not join a party and vote there?

You are, of course, aware of the fact that crossover voting is a technique commonly used by both parties. When Bush basically ran unopposed in 2004, there was a lot of GOP crossover in Dem primaries. It's a two-way street.

I agree, and I think the Dems should have closed primaries too. I didn't think operation Chaos was all that bright (or effective) for that matter.

If you choose to view this as "name-calling," so be it. Poly has a procedure for dealing with such things.

I don't see how it advances your position that you are disenfranchised by closed primaries.

[-Jrabbit]

I repeat: I'm not disenfranchised. I live in Illinois.

On primary day, I join whichever party offers an important choice. In 2000, I voted in the GOP primary, supporting McCain. And if he had been nominated, I would have supported him in the general. So really, I do declare my affiliation. Which varies. Kind of like Joe Lieberman.

20 states, plus DC and Puerto Rico, use closed or semi-closed primaries. It disenfranchises roughly 20% of the electorate in those states. And if crossover strategies aren't all that bight or effective, what's the big deal? Why shouldn't all voters be permitted to support their preferred candidate, regardless of affiliation?

[Ben Kenobi]

20 states, plus DC and Puerto Rico, use closed or semi-closed primaries. It disenfranchises roughly 20% of the electorate in those states. And if crossover strategies aren't all that bight or effective, what's the big deal? Why shouldn't all voters be permitted to support their preferred candidate, regardless of affiliation?

I never said that crossover strategies were ineffective. I said that the 'operation chaos' was ineffective.

The problem I have is what happened in the GOP nomination where McCain who was the MSM candidate won, due to the massive coverage he received. I have a problem when independents are picking the GOP candidate.

I think Republicans are disenfranchised, and that's why closed primaries are necessary.

[SlowwHand]

I vote for who I want to vote for. generally, a mixed ticket; as it was this year.