Marriage, Gays, and Atheists

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

They have higher rates of partner abuse, sexual abuse and other things as well.

Again, it's balderdash that just because someone wants to adopt that they must be permitted to do so. It's better that the child remain without a parent then to be placed in a home that subjects them to abuse.

Secondly, you are depriving the child of a mother and a father. Why shouldn't this child deserve to have both? If we are placing the child, why does this child not deserve the same as all the other children?

Boris, Asher, and KH have pretty much PWNED you already on the statistics regarding greater rates of abuse among gay and lesbian couples. In other words, you misrepresented the information you provided.

Secondly, do you ever stop to think why I and others on here have such low patience when arguing with you? Why we often turn to insulting out of sheer frustration (banging head on wall)? Because you deliberately twist and distort the point of the other person's argument.

My point with allowing gay and lesbian couples to adopt kids is not to mandate that EVERYONE should be allowed to adopt without any background check you **** wad. You deliberately distorted the point of my argument here.

MY point is that once gay and lesbian couples have gone through the thorough background check everyone else is required to go through, then they should not face discrimination in adopting a child.

I really agree with Asher, Boris, and KH. You either need to come out of the ****ing closet or you need to look yourself in the mirror and call yourself a homophobic bigot.

And stop deliberately distorting the point of other people's arguments.

[Asher]

MrFun is insulting people! I like him more now.

[MrFun]

I've done it before, and I can do it again; not just with BK.

[Boris Godunov]

Whoa!

[Ben Kenobi]

I didn't say he was my wife, I said he provided the same benefits of a wife -- that is to say, he is my spouse and life-partner. A wife gives me nothing more but a higher tampon bill.

You didn't answer the question. In which way is he your wife as opposed to your husband?

Exhibit A: Your hatred of gays.
Exhibit B: How you will stop at NOTHING to convince yourself that gay is not an option.

A: Man if I truly hated gays, I'd be calling for a fatwa.

B: It couldn't be that I just enjoy being with women, now could it?

It's textbook phased coming out.

If sexual orientation is fixed then you are bi. If it changes over time, then yes, you can be gay now, but there is nothing stopping you from marrying a woman.

Did you know that over 40 percent of everyone who engages in gay marriage was previously married to another man or a woman?

This means one of two things. 1, gay marriage will in fact reduce the marriage rates.

OR

2, people can change their sexual orientation. Which is it Asher?

The bisexual step is common, it's why in the gay community people laugh when someone says they're bi. It's a stepping stone on the road of acceptance for most people.

That is interesting. So what you are saying is that gay people don't believe anyone can be bisexual?

Not all men think the same way, not all women think the same way. And how one thinks does not matter when it comes to pairing up spouses...

Are you for real asher?



I'm saving this for when I get control of my sig again.

I take it you have no idea how quickly one can legally and physically change their sex with surgery and hormone therapy.

Gender. No, all they do is mutilate themselves. What I am trying to say is just because you get surgery doesn't make you a woman or a man. There is a fundamental difference. That is what fundamental means. It's like a house and you have the foundation. You cannot hold up the house without the fundaments, changing the fundamentals means you no longer have the same house as you had before.

[Supr49er]

Originally posted by Asher
MrFun is insulting people! I like him more now.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

I'm saving this for when I get control of my sig again.

I think you need to reprioritize.

First, you should get control of your own thought processing, or what little is left of it before worrying about something like your sig line.

[Ben Kenobi]

The problem is that BK is too think to realise why he is wrong. He's like a rabid dog, he just needs putting down. And that is an analogy, not a personal attack.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

You didn't answer the question. In which way is he your wife as opposed to your husband?

He IS my husband He is NOT my wife. And I DID answer your question.

If sexual orientation is fixed then you are bi.

No, I've always been gay. It just took time and wisdom to admit it.

Did you know that over 40 percent of everyone who engages in gay marriage was previously married to another man or a woman?

This means one of two things. 1, gay marriage will in fact reduce the marriage rates.

OR

2, people can change their sexual orientation. Which is it Asher?

First of all, cite it.
And the real answer is 3:
3, people like yourself and Ted Haggard try to convince themselves they are straight and marry a woman because they "want kids and a wife". Then they realize how genuinely miserable it makes them and at some point, they become who they truly are and not what bigots like you want them to be.

That is interesting. So what you are saying is that gay people don't believe anyone can be bisexual?

There's a significant portion of the gay community who view bisexuals as in a transition phase. The usual response is something like " , yeah, I was bi once too".

I think there genuinely can be and are bi people, personally, as I'm a believer in the Kinsey spectrum.

Gender.

It's called a sex change, not a gender change.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Oh sure. I love my dog too. Just because you love someone doesn't mean that should be called marriage.

We aren't talking dogs... we are talking a couple. I know gay couples who love each other more than some straight couples...

Not woman? It doesn't matter to you that your wife is a woman?

Sure it matters to me... I'm straight. If I was gay, I would feel differently. Who am I to tell somebody who they can or can not spend their life with. People have the RIGHT to choose their own partners.

You've said that a few times. Any evidence?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA Yes, real evidence, unlike your studies that don't even back up your claims. See the link from my earlier post just a few ago. Read that and try to tell me that state care is better for the child.
I DARE YOU

I'm saying it's been shown that there is a difference. Whether you consider it significant, the truth is that you are willing to overlook the difference at the cost of the welfare of the child. It's like saying you'd go with the lesser option because you don't believe that these children can do better. I think they can, and that we shouldn't place children with families that are much more likely to split up and suffer abuse.

You have NOT SHOWN ANY research that indicates a gay couple is worse than a straight couple. I have shown evidence that State Care is cruel and terrible.
And not just single piece of research... read the link I provided. It's absolutely scarey what happens to kids in state care. You can not advocate leaving children in the system.

Thank you. So it's irrelevant saying that the child should make the decision. It's the responsibility of the agency, not the child to screen.

And the agency should give children to ANY loving couple just to get them out of the cruel system.

The only thing I see is that the welfare of the children is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the desires of those who wish to adopt. It's like one stop shopping, if anyone is rejected that means their rights have been violated.

No... the welfare of the children is relevent. And a gay couple can be as loving as a straight couple. People should be judged on their ability to provide a loving and stable home... NOT their sexual preference.

How is that in the best interest of the children to shut down adoption agencies?

HUH... I never said anything about shutting down adoption agencies... not relevent.

It's not about the same, it's significantly higher. Plus you are looking at the risk of breakup being higher.

Remember... you screen ANY family. There is a chance for break up in any relationship. But what we do know is, the longer the kids stay under the care of the state, the more potential risk they are subjected to.

Protecting them from abuse is more important. We shouldn't place children in a situation where they could be abused just because those are the only options at present. The system should be lifting barriers that prevent white parents from adopting black babies.

Getting them out of the system is the best way to protect them. And kids can get abused by hetero couples as well... And there is NO REAL RESEARCH that shows that gay adoptive parents abuse there children more than Straight adoptive parents.

I don't see why you would want to keep religion from children.

Because I want to see Priests kept from children. Their rate of sexual abuse is higher than gay people.

[Ben Kenobi]

Boris, Asher, and KH have pretty much PWNED you already on the statistics regarding greater rates of abuse among gay and lesbian couples.

They've cited nothing to prove that the rates are lower.

Far as I'm concerned, until they do, they haven't done anything.

In other words, you misrepresented the information you provided.

How so? I cited them, and unlike everyone else here, I'm the only one who actually bothers. As usual citations do nothing to actually change what people think so why should I bother?

Secondly, do you ever stop to think why I and others on here have such low patience when arguing with you?

You should go look in the mirror then.

Why we often turn to insulting out of sheer frustration (banging head on wall)?

Because you lack the ability to reason in such a way without resorting to ad-hominems. I'm arguing with all of you, and yet I've not made one personal attack here. I've got 5 people arguing with me. Surely it's easier for 1 of 5 to maintain their calm then it is for me.

My point with allowing gay and lesbian couples to adopt kids is not to mandate that EVERYONE should be allowed to adopt without any background check

The point I was addressing is that adoption is not a right. If it were so, then everyone would be permitted to adopt regardless of marital status.

MY point is that once gay and lesbian couples have gone through the thorough background check everyone else is required to go through, then they should not face discrimination in adopting a child.

Then why shouldn't I be permitted to do the same? I'm a single man. I should have a RIGHT to adopt. Same as you.

I really agree with Asher, Boris, and KH. You either need to come out of the ****ing closet or you need to look yourself in the mirror and call yourself a homophobic bigot.

I do that every day, actually. That's only after I get the whips and chains out.

And stop deliberately distorting the point of other people's arguments.

5 on 1?

More whining.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Did you know that over 40 percent of everyone who engages in gay marriage was previously married to another man or a woman?

You completely lack understanding of the social and pyschological dynamics for gays and lesbians in regard to being in closet versus being out and honest with oneself and with others.

The gay men and lesbians who had married before to someone of the opposite gender had been raised in a heterosexist and homophobic society. They were raised to think that the ONLY conceivable romantic relationship possible is between a man and a woman.

If this is all that you are raised to believe in, the presumption will be that you are straight and will marry someone of the opposite gender. Heterosexist societal norms provide this overwhelming, powerful presumption that everyone is heterosexual unless otherwise stated.

All of this presumptuous pressure leads gays and lesbians to grow up and sexually mature either being confused about their actual sexual orientation until it hits them like a brick, or they come to realize it, but they choose to suppress it and deny it - psychologically torturing themselves by living a lie.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
They've cited nothing to prove that the rates are lower.

Far as I'm concerned, until they do, they haven't done anything.

You just can't stop lying.

I posted more statistical evidence than YOU did, because as KH pointed out, you didn't even understand your own ****ing link and had no idea what it was really saying.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

They've cited nothing to prove that the rates are lower.

Far as I'm concerned, until they do, they haven't done anything.

YOUR VERY ARTICLE SAYS, POINT BLANK, THAT THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN ABUSE RATES.

This means your claim that gay relationships ARE MORE ABUSIVE is FALSE.

Be a man and admit you were WRONG. Your own cited study contradicts your claims.

How so? I cited them, and unlike everyone else here, I'm the only one who actually bothers. As usual citations do nothing to actually change what people think so why should I bother?

WAKE UP!

Your citation does not only not corroborate your claims, it corroborated the claims of EVERYONE ELSE in that the abuse rates are no different!

[Boris Godunov]

Don't expect him to admit to his lies, he never does. Once it was proven that his claim of gays torching churches was completely untrue, he didn't acknowledge it, he just vanished for a while and scurried on to other stupid talking points.