Nationwide protest against Proposition 8 tomorrow.

[CrONoS]

Originally posted by Kidicious

Lobbyists aren't very good at seducing people (see the tobacco lobbyists). They are good at blocking legislation though, which is undemocratic (inherently bad) usually when they are able to do so.

What I meant was: Lobbyism is an inherent aspect of a democratic system; but lobbying is not good or bad, but it has the bad disadvantage to make pay a lot of people for the benefit of few guys.

People can be stupid that's for sure. I'm saying that the term "democratic" (adj.) means that people are smart and just. If people who have power in society are stupid and unjust then that society is "undemocratic." I've already posted dictionary and wiki definitions to support that this is the current meaning of the word.

Sorry; While definition are defined by humans, I don't want to change definition in order to make it fit for ideological purpose. Democratic means: dêmos (which means people, populace) kratos: "political bodies, state". If you want to change the word, open your greek dictionary and make a new word.

Or point me the article.

And you think people in power of a totalitarian government don't use their emotions to make decisions for society?

No, I don't think that. But a direct democracy via IT, doesn't necessary means, something desirable.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by CrONoS
What I meant was: Lobbyism is an inherent aspect of a democratic system; but lobbying is not good or bad, but it has the bad disadvantage to make pay a lot of people for the benefit of few guys.

Hmmm. If it has a bad disadvantage, then why isn't it bad?

Sorry; While definition are defined by humans, I don't want to change definition in order to make it fit for ideological purpose. Democratic means: dêmos (which means people, populace) kratos: "political bodies, state". If you want to change the word, open your greek dictionary and make a new word.

Or point me the article.

I won't point to the article again. There are a lot of articles on line. I'm sorry, but if you don't know what the term is then you don't read enough. I suggest you start reading some of the articles that you get when you google "strong democracy." The problem is that there are a **** load of people who have posted on this thread that haven't read **** or participated in serious conversations regarding the issue yet they think they know what the **** they're talking about.

I'll say it again. I'm not trying to change the definition of the word. That's been done, and I wouldn't be able to do it by myself anyway. I'm using the definition as it is. Others are not.

[CrONoS]

Originally posted by Kidicious

Hmmm. If it has a bad disadvantage, then why isn't it bad?

Because it also a good thing, lobbyism is a way for interest groups to be heard, to send information to politician, to influence politician, to take part in a policy making process in order to reflect the interest of their people.

I won't point to the article again. There are a lot of articles on line. I'm sorry, but if you don't know what the term is then you don't read enough. I suggest you start reading some of the articles that you get when you google "strong democracy." The problem is that there are a **** load of people who have posted on this thread that haven't read **** or participated in serious conversations regarding the issue yet they think they know what the **** they're talking about.

In your previous post you used the word "democratic" without any other adjectives. You didn't wrote the word "strong democracy", but "democratic".

So, what I question is your definition of the word "democratic". (since you used this word in your previous post)

Edit:

I'm sorry, but if you don't know what the term is then you don't read enough.

... And I'll refrain myself replying to this.

Edited:
Democracy -> Democratic

[MrFun]

Kid, when gays and lesbians are finally able to legally marry and if you actually are gay and ever come out of the closet, I will be the first to support your decision to marry Ben Kenobi.

[CrONoS]

Anyway, I'm going to sleep. see ya

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by CrONoS
Because it also a good thing, lobbyism is a way for interest groups to be heard, to send information to politician, to influence politician, to take part in a policy making process in order to reflect the interest of their people.

Why would lobbyists be needed for that though? What's wrong with the people communicating their needs to politicians? What is wrong with people talking and listening to each other?

In your previous post you used the word "democracy" without any other adjectives. You didn't wrote the word "strong democracy", but "democracy".

So, what I question is your definition of the word "democracy". (since you used this word in your previous post)

"Strong democracy" is not something different from "democracy." Democracy means that citizens are treated equally. "Strong democracy" simply means that citizens are treated equally in relative terms.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by MrFun
Kid, when gays and lesbians are finally able to legally marry and if you actually are gay and ever come out of the closet, I will be the first to support your decision to marry Ben Kenobi.

You know I believe that I was respectfull of you before you turned into such an ******* to me.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by CrONoS
Anyway, I'm going to sleep. see ya

Later bud.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Kidicious


You know I believe that I was respectfull of you before you turned into such an ******* to me.

Come on, Kid. I have to give you a hard time for digging yourself into such a deep hole again.

When you crawl back up, I will be there to pull you back up over the edge, out of the hole.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by MrFun
Come on, Kid. I have to give you a hard time for digging yourself into such a deep hole again.

When you crawl back up, I will be there to pull you back up over the edge, out of the hole.

No. I've lost respect for you. I clearly demonstrated my point here. It really shouldn't be an issue. You're the one who won't even consider that you might not know everything here, yet you accuse me of that.

[MrFun]

Imran gave strong, factual points as to why when anything passes to become law based on popular vote, it's a democratic process regardless of how oppressive such a law is.

I came to understand why that point is valid, which is why I realized I was wrong. I made the mistake in believing that when an oppressive act is passed, that it's anything BUT a democratic process. But a democratic process simply means decision-making by popular vote of majority.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by MrFun
Imran gave strong, factual points as to why when anything passes to become law based on popular vote, it's a democratic process regardless of how oppressive such a law is.

The issue is what the more popular use of the word is. He hasn't done **** to show that his definition is valid today. Furthermore, you jumped on me, accusing me of being like Wiglaf, when I've posted relevent material. I'm just sick of this ****! Like I said, I'll probably be banned when Ming sees this, and I really don't give a ****. I've lost respect for more and more people on this site lately. So **** it.

[Kidlicious]

Oh well, since I won't be able to post tomorrow probably I'll post one more time.

"Democracy is not so much a form of government as a set of principles." - Woodrow Wilson

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm saying that the term "democratic" (adj.) means that people are smart and just. If people who have power in society are stupid and unjust then that society is "undemocratic."

This is the lamest attempt at redefining a term I've ever seen. So the US is undemocratic because the people in power are stupid and unjust? That's so incredibly hilarious, I almost think you are trolling us.

[Heraclitus]

I think he is confusing democratic for meritocratic.