Nationwide protest against Proposition 8 tomorrow.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Kidicious

The argument is over whether it's commonly used or not. Since you didn't even know that, kindly leave.

Nope, it's over your redefining the term democracy to mean what you want it to mean rather than what it actually means. Your modifiers of "weak" and "strong" were meaningless. Linking to articles that don't remotely support your position isn't evidence, it's just hand-waving.

In other words, you're acting typically stupid. Bye.

[Zkribbler]

Liberty has two legs.

One leg is democracy, rule by the majority.

The only leg is individual rights, i.e. basic human rights upon which nothing, including the will of the majority, can tread. Our "Bill of Rights" is one of the most anti-democratic documents ever written.

There is a constant tension about which leg of liberty is applicable in any given situation.

[MrFun]

So when is it acceptable for a majority to take away other people's rights?

Should we put the right to bear arms up to majority vote? Or maybe should let mob rule vote on certain severe restrictions on free speech?

I think it was an entirely different matter to write up the Bill of Rights and then have people vote on this in the respective thirteen states. It's something else when you have existing rights and you allow mob rule to revoke such rights.

Is it fair for the majority to revoke the legal marriage of 18,000 people in California?

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
individual rights, i.e. basic human rights upon which nothing, including the will of the majority, can tread. Our "Bill of Rights" is one of the most anti-democratic documents ever written.

Nothing? the bills of rights can be changes by the same amendment process that created it, and indeed, the 14th amendment took a big chunk out of the 10th (but in the direction of increasing individual rights against states' rights). The same amendment process took away individuals rights to drink alcohol, and then gave it back again. Wash rinse repeat.

[Pekka]

Listen all you gays adn you gay haters.

I'm tired of this discourse, where gay issues are issues. I'm tired of your "we have rights too!" and "no you don't!" thing. I'm a smaller minority, I oppose this discussion! I hate you BOTH and I want to protest your existence. I just hate you all.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Pekka
I'm a smaller minority

Hermaphrodite?

[DRoseDARs]

Turns out that poor little old lady who had her styrofoam cross savaged by evil f*ggots isn't such a wilting flower afterall. B*tch is a professional rabble-rouser who constantly makes appearances at gay gatherings. This latest stunt, she apparently knocked down a disabled person to force her way through the crowd, who turned on her when she assaulted the disabled person. The news media recognized her (!) at bee lined for her, ignoring the disabled person.

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2008/11/truth-about-phyllis-burgess.html

The Truth About Phyllis Burgess

There's more to the story of Phylliss Burgess, 69, the "Styrofoam Cross Lady" that is currently the darling of Christianist websites after her cross was ripped from her hands and stomped during a Prop 8 rally in Palm Springs. If you buy the story being told on right-wing sites, Burgesss is a frail, elderly, innocent victim of "gay fascists."

But it turns out that Burgess is somewhat of a professional rabble-rouser and has disrupted at least several other LGBT events, including Palm Springs Gay Pride. Burgess even showed up to protest at the White Party, a giant circuit party held every spring..

On CNN's iReport, a witness to the cross incident tells a somewhat different version of the event than the one depicted on the news video that is on so many right-wing sites.

At City Hall a woman with a huge styrofoam cross appeared screaming about YES on 8 at the back of the crowd of NO on 8 supporters --their rally. She wanted to get to where the speakers were up front and I saw her knock a disabled man, a NO on 8 supporter to the ground, screaming, "Get out of my way!". People in the crowd around her tore away her cross and threw it to the ground and began pushing her. Local CBS channel 2 and KMIR channel 6 videotaped the woman being shoved and then interviewed her, ignoring the poor disabled man who was attacked first. Later after all of the rally, march and protest were over I watched the news which headlined this as "Gay Protest Turns Violent!"

Mike Tidmus has posted an excellent recap of the Burgess story, and suggests that we watch this video of the event for a clearer idea of Burgess' tactics.

If you study the video from KESQ, you’ll see Ms Burgess emerge, not from the sidelines, but directly through the middle of the crowd. You’ll also note that the news anchor recognizes Burgess, because this is not Burgess’ first visit to an anti-Prop-8 event. She showed up to protest five days earlier at the Palm Springs Gay Pride Parade.

Burgess is apparently well-known to the Palm Springs police and she informed them in advance that she would be attending the No On 8 candlelight vigil during which the cross incident occurred. Several days later, new cross in hand, she again appeared, this time at the Palm Springs Village Fest, telling the press, "I have a right to be here. It's not to antagonize, but it exposes where the hatred is."

Check out Burgess' MySpace page in which she rails against gay rights. The gay people who snatched and stomped Burgess' cross were definitely in the wrong, but it's clear that she is a professional agitator and hardly an "innocent victim."

(Via - Mike Tidmus)

[Deity Dude]

Joe MY God LOL. That's an unbiased source of news on gay activities.

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by Deity Dude
Joe MY God LOL. That's an unbiased source of news on gay activities.

Yours has to be the stupidest post I've read all week.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
Yours has to be the stupidest post I've read all week.

So you missed the arguments with BK, too?

[Jaguar]

I'm not going to read this thread at all, but I'm going to go ahead and apologize to gays on Apolyton for all of the stupid things people have most assuredly said.

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
So you missed the arguments with BK, too?

That assumes I bothered reading them. BK, not a fan of teh homogaymarriage? Shocking.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Jaguar
I'm not going to read this thread at all, but I'm going to go ahead and apologize to gays on Apolyton for all of the stupid things people have most assuredly said.

If I'm going to accept an apology on behalf of all heterosexuals, it's going to have to come from a more convincing source. Perhaps Russell Crowe or Robert De Niro.

[Jaguar]

Sir, your taste in men is questionable.

(Your taste in the arts is impeccable, though, so I will give you a free pass.)

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Jaguar
Sir, your taste in men is questionable.

(Your taste in the arts is impeccable, though, so I will give you a free pass.)

I wasn't referring to people I viewed as attractive, but rather as indisputably heterosexual.