zeitgeist

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Yes sir. I'm the one trying to fix their existing database program, and build them a website. In the process I get to root out lots of expired products, mislabeled things, you name it.

I also get to do the product writeups for each product they carry, which means I get to go through the advert material they get. Pretty much the only oversight that goes over the products and their ingredients comes from the owner of the store, and that's if he remembers what he ordered from years ago that is still in the store.

Most of the products labelled 'organic' are only so to charge a premium over the 'discount' brand. That's the only difference.

Are the laws in Canada like they are in the US regarding labeling food 'organic.' If so than the store you're working for is breaking the law. Also, you don't seem very worried about it, as a Christian.

[tinyp3nis]

Maybe the shop owner is a Christian, those guys never lie.

[Ben Kenobi]

Are the laws in Canada like they are in the US regarding labeling food 'organic.' If so than the store you're working for is breaking the law. Also, you don't seem very worried about it, as a Christian.

I am concerned. Why do you think I am saying what I do? I hope that I can enlighten a few folks here as to what the scam is all about.

Secondly, you've missed the point. The problem isn't the store, but the manufacturers who misleadingly label their products organic, when in fact they are not. Many of them contain more chemicals then products that don't try to claim they are organic that cost a fraction of the price in your grocery store.

My job as a Christian is to show people that they are being deceived but most people as Agathon has so eloquently put, want to believe that they can expiate the sins of consumerism by buying the 'right' stuff.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I'm not sure I'm helping you earn any... the places I buy organics would probably go out of business if it was revealed it wasn't what it was labeled (ie, "Whole Foods", and a very large Farmer's Market).

So you shop at Whole Foods? Does your douchebaggery know no limits?!?!

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Secondly, you've missed the point. The problem isn't the store, but the manufacturers who misleadingly label their products organic, when in fact they are not. Many of them contain more chemicals then products that don't try to claim they are organic that cost a fraction of the price in your grocery store.

It's somewhat true, but I think in the US, since the term "organic" does have legal requirements, most of those not-really-organically-grown items have switched to describing their products as "all-natural" and so on. (Then again, I don't know why one would necessarily buy organic for anything other than produce.)

And, while buying organic is nice, one should also try to buy locally. What's the point in not using pesticides if you're belching out tons of carbon shipping it from California to Michigan?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I am concerned. Why do you think I am saying what I do? I hope that I can enlighten a few folks here as to what the scam is all about.

I don't think there's any chance that any of us are going to shop at the store you work at. At any rate, people like myself only purchase organic whole foods.

Secondly, you've missed the point. The problem isn't the store, but the manufacturers who misleadingly label their products organic, when in fact they are not. Many of them contain more chemicals then products that don't try to claim they are organic that cost a fraction of the price in your grocery store.

The store you work for chooses to carry those products and decieve their customers. Both the store and yourself are making money from that.

My job as a Christian is to show people that they are being deceived but most people as Agathon has so eloquently put, want to believe that they can expiate the sins of consumerism by buying the 'right' stuff.

While you collect a paycheck from it?

[Impaler[WrG]]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I can see their is a lot of room for improvement in the banking and monetary systems. Money of some kind is needed to avoid the inefficiencies of Barter but the way we create money is a poor match for the actual rate of real value creation in the economy. Which leads to money supply becoming out of sync with physical assets which always leads to some kind of economic disruption. I don't purport to know exactly how such a system would work but I don't think its as radical as some kind of money-less system, I'm looking towards some thing based on rational macro economic theory not wide-eyed conspiracy theories.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
My job as a Christian is to show people that they are being deceived but most people as Agathon has so eloquently put, want to believe that they can expiate the sins of consumerism by buying the 'right' stuff.

Doesn't that make the whole Christian money-making machine, with Jesus action figures, Evangelical movies, religious self-help books, and the like kinda... well, counter to your state goals?

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
The regulations are only as strong as they are enforceable.

Regardless of whether state or federal agencies are lax on enforcement, citizens can sue privately to enforce against the flagrant fraud you're describing, either individually or as a class action, and the combination of court-mandated inspections and state/federal statutes regarding labeling would make the case such a slam-dunk that the consumer could probably obtain summary judgment without even needing trial. Hell, fraud on such a widespread scale would probably induce the state AG to do this on consumers' behalf after enough written complaints, and again this would be regardless of what state/fed agencies generally do.

Ergo, I have to suspect you're pulling this all out of your ass, like usual.

[chequita guevara]

In the United States, the organic label carries very strict requirements with it. Furthermore, the producers of organic foods are required to get certification, which costs a lot of money. So much so that many farms who are organic can't afford to get labeled organic.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles
In the United States, the organic label carries very strict requirements with it. Furthermore, the producers of organic foods are required to get certification, which costs a lot of money. So much so that many farms who are organic can't afford to get labeled organic.

Which is why, often times, you buy them at farmer's markets instead.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's somewhat true, but I think in the US, since the term "organic" does have legal requirements, most of those not-really-organically-grown items have switched to describing their products as "all-natural" and so on. (Then again, I don't know why one would necessarily buy organic for anything other than produce.)

I'm telling you and I deal with this on a daily basis. Most, if not all the products in the store call themselves "organic".

Some products state that they are organic "as guaranteed by the USDA".

That number is considerably lower, maybe a few products in the whole store.

And, while buying organic is nice, one should also try to buy locally. What's the point in not using pesticides if you're belching out tons of carbon shipping it from California to Michigan?

If that were the case, the store would go out of business. Nothing is produced up here, we even have bananas!

[Ben Kenobi]

Regardless of whether state or federal agencies are lax on enforcement, citizens can sue privately to enforce against the flagrant fraud you're describing, either individually or as a class action, and the combination of court-mandated inspections and state/federal statutes regarding labeling would make the case such a slam-dunk that the consumer could probably obtain summary judgment without even needing trial. Hell, fraud on such a widespread scale would probably induce the state AG to do this on consumers' behalf after enough written complaints, and again this would be regardless of what state/fed agencies generally do.

They aren't technically lying. The only ones who would have a stake in this are the products that do play by the rules (not many), and the customers, (who don't really care so long as it says "organic" on the label.

This is why I don't think it's enforceable. We are just a small podunk store, and well out of the way of inspectors so to speak. I don't think they could find my town on a map.

[Ben Kenobi]

Doesn't that make the whole Christian money-making machine, with Jesus action figures, Evangelical movies, religious self-help books, and the like kinda... well, counter to your state goals?

We sell religious goods too. At cost. Lots of Catholic stuff and some protestant stuff, but no Jesus action figures, evangelical movies or self-help books.

We do carry all kinds of books and missals and other things like that.

Again, I know this because the margin goes from 50 percent off the organic stuff to 0 for the religious goods.

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't think there's any chance that any of us are going to shop at the store you work at. At any rate, people like myself only purchase organic whole foods.

We are your only suppliers for about 500 miles.

The store you work for chooses to carry those products and decieve their customers. Both the store and yourself are making money from that.

Very true. Which is why I'm saying what I do. I'm sure if my store does it most other ones do to.

While you collect a paycheck from it?

I signed a contract, which I intend to fulfill, prior to finding out about all this stuff. It's not my decision what the store stocks, nor is it my decision what they choose to put up on the website. My job is to get writeups for everything in the store. That's all.