Abortion?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Elok
Opposed under all circumstances but life of the mother and fatal deformity. The idea that it'll just happen anyway, so we should allow it to happen openly is a bit silly--somewhat akin to seeing a poor person stealing food, noting that they have few other realistic choices, and then legalizing theft to protect them from reprisals. Well-meaning, but wrong nonetheless.

EDIT for civility.

So you believe that if you're hungry it's immoral to steal food?

[Patroklos]

I'm not a fan of abortion, but then it's not my body.
Women should have a choice. If it was my wife, I'd let her know my opinion but would support whatever she decided 100%.

Even if you believed (and now medical science sometimes tells you) it is no longer a fetus but a human?

[Jon Miller]

Is it moral to steal food if you are hungery but can pay?

JM

[Verto]

Originally posted by Cartimandua
Besides, once the baby is born you can always put it up for adoption.

Because the world isn't already overwhelmed with too many unwanted kids, or children whose parents can't raise them.

[Cartimandua]

Originally posted by Verto


Because the world isn't already overwhelmed with too many unwanted kids, or children whose parents can't raise them.

Frankly, the system is at fault there. I personally know many who cannot have children of their own, and are trying to adopt, but the system makes them wait for years and other countries won't allow US citizens to adopt.

[Wiglaf]

Rather than spend trillions on Obama's socialist entitlement pyramid schemes, we should invest in government run adoption houses for unwanted kids to grow up in, and also increase the number of homeless shelters for when they are adults.

[Q Classic]

Choice.

I don't like abortion, but studies have shown that banning its practice does nothing to stop the rates of abortion, only increases the rates that women will choose to have illegal, potentially-lifethreatening procedures done.

Seeing as a baby requires a lot more time and investment to become a reasonably productive member of society, while a female capable of breeding is often times already capable of being a productive member, I'm unwilling to risk the life of the latter for the former over a banned, dangerous, and unhygenic procedure if the possibility exists of having a legal and relatively safe alternative.

In other words, with illegal abortions, there's a much greater risk of two dying instead of one.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Cartimandua


Frankly, the system is at fault there. I personally know many who cannot have children of their own, and are trying to adopt, but the system ... won't allow [them].

Well, it's not like fags can provide a house with a mother and a father, no matter how loving and wonderful parents they could be.

After all, it's better to let those kids stay in orphanages or with their abusive man-woman households instead.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Rather than spend trillions on Obama's socialist entitlement pyramid schemes, we should invest in government run adoption houses for unwanted kids to grow up in, and also increase the number of homeless shelters for when they are adults.

lol

JM

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Elok
Opposed under all circumstances but life of the mother and fatal deformity. The idea that it'll just happen anyway, so we should allow it to happen openly is a bit silly--somewhat akin to seeing a poor person stealing food, noting that they have few other realistic choices, and then legalizing theft to protect them from reprisals. Well-meaning, but wrong nonetheless.

Y'know, even with this in mind...

I'd rather that the Hatians, Zimbabweans, and NKoreans, for example, steal enough food to survive instead of letting them starve because they can't afford food.

A more ideal solution than that would be to, y'know, provide more food aid. Or, to complete the analogy, proper sex ed, access to condoms and other methods of contraception, including the morning-after pill, and so on.

But it's not an ideal world; there will still be unwanted pregnancies, just like how there are unwanted thieveries. I'd much rather if someone palmed an apple because they were starving simply get a slap on the wrist than die on the street--much like how I'd prefer a woman get a legal abortion instead of haemorrhage and die from an illegal one.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Elok
Opposed under all circumstances but life of the mother

So, in other words, for a woman to get an abortion, all she'd have to do is attempt suicide. She'll get an abortion either way; it's just on how you determine whether the operation success, there: did the patient die? Or did she live?

[Elok]

Originally posted by Kidicious
So you believe that if you're hungry it's immoral to steal food?

No, that's basically a no-win situation. But you're missing the point here. The correct thing to do when confronted with people so desperate they have to steal to survive is not to legalize theft so they can do it more efficiently. It's to look at the situation and try to figure out what's causing people to be in such pitiful straits, and try to fix that. Meanwhile stealing food remains illegal, because your life sucking does not invalidate another person's property rights.

The analogy sort of breaks down at this point, because the government can run soup kitchens while addressing the root causes of poverty and homelessness, but there's no equivalent of that for abortion. All we can do is address the problem that much more vociferously. More contraceptive education, combined with better access to contraception, will take out a lot of the problem.

I'm not sure what we can do to further reduce rape and incest, but I see rape and incest exceptions as basically unenforceable. How do you prove you were raped to the folks running a clinic? Do they just use their judgment ("Well, she looked pretty distraught and it was raw down there, so we decided to believe her")? Physical health exceptions...I disagree with them, but they seem much easier to check. That's a decent compromise, I guess.

The small risk of failure with proper contraceptive use is a chance you take when having sex. If you absolutely will not accept a kid, you should just jerk off.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Elok
The small risk of failure with proper contraceptive use is a chance you take when having sex. If you absolutely will not accept a kid, you should just jerk off.

That's unacceptable.

[SlowwHand]

Why should a child, or an "it" as Imran phrases the person, have to pay for your lazyass and careless habits?

[Lancer]

If you guys are going to talk about abortion maybe you would like to listen to one? This lady was aborted...